Exciting times. With the new day dawning with drastically changed need for equipment, where does that leave PK? I used to hate PK on Tempus because you worked so hard for that one piece of equipment, just to have it get stolen from you so easily. With Nothing's oh so tasty blurbs on the new way that equipment will affect a player, why would a player PK?

I'll be the first to admit that when you are in the arena with a few closely matched opponents, it can be very fun and exciting. Mobs can't be as cunning as a player (maybe Nothing will prove me wrong), and therefore the subsequent battle is always amusing. So will PK shrivel into the arena or be defined by the occasional quest?

Surprisingly enough, I have played on other MUDS as well as some MMORPG's that allow PK, and even a couple that focuse on it. One of my favorite systems is the PK points, or Clan points system. This system is basically where a player gains a few of these points per level, and if PK'd by a rival clan member or whatnot, the killer receives a percentage of the defeated players points. Points can be used for different things, but I'm not sure how they could be incorporated in Tempus.

So, what would you like to see in the new PK realm? Any good ideas floating around? Maybe those in the know will leak a little more goodies.

To my understanding (which is not nearly as complete as it would be if I were'nt working 7 days a week 12+ hours a day), equipment is not going to be at all obsolete. There will be good equipment out there. Its just not going to be character defining. As it stands, even a gen 10 naked is screwed… and it shouldnt be that way. The power should be in the character, not his clothes. But clothes (especially magical ones) should help! So there will still be a reason to snatch up someone elses stuff… its just not going to be any where near as devestating if they do. It'll still hurt though. :)

That being said, that points thing is a pretty cool idea. If it could be molded some way to fit Tempus, that could be an interesting thing. We'll have to kick it around when we are defining PK again.

i don't know about u guys… but i still think that full looting is pretty hard to swallow…

inorder to promote Pkilling, i think we should make it so that a player doesn't lose all their goodies when he/she dies…

Well lets not start with powderpuff pk already. If it needs to go there there will be no preventing it.

Limb damage would be pretty cool… like being able to target a player's arms, legs, head, etc. with certain # of hits breaking it, making it useless. Of course there should be a way to heal it, but say arms are broken, you unwield your weapons, legs broken, you can't stand, head gets bashed to a bloody pulp, you get amnesia or whatever it is. Conversely, people should be able to parry attacks that are targeted towards a player. Full loot blows. I'd say get rid of the eq loss factor, more people would participate in PK if that happened. Just make the loss experience or something, so it still takes time, but it's not impossibly hard to load that PERFECT piece of equipment that you spend months trying to load. Say 1 death = two or three hours worth of leveling.

If you get rid of looting equipment, then, in all honesty, what's the point of pkilling someone? (Not that anyone ever gets looted anymore, anyways…)

Back when I actually played my morts, I used to enjoy the occasional pkill. Whether it was because someone bothered me, or because I didn't like their clan, or, I was just feeling frisky, I'd always be sure to loot at least one piece of equipment. Why? That's the only thing in this game that has any sting whatsoever. It's the only thing that has any impact. Take someone's money, and they go run a couple of zones for about an hour and get it back. Big deal.

So what if it takes another 2 or 3 hours to level longer than it normally would? That's essentially what the game is about, killing mobs to level up. You're not having to do something that you wouldn't already do. Besides, you'll probably just get your clannies to spam level you again, anyway.

Looting equipment? That's when people stand up and take notice.

well… if we reward pkilling with PKill Points(i know this popped up before) instead of bad reputation, everything would change. maybe in the end, pkill points can be an alternative to get quest points (let's say 10 kills per point). the player that gets killed would lose 5-10% of their level (or maybe they'll drop 1-5 item(s) from their body or inventory… we'll work on that later). cuz the way things are right now… when you get killed by a pro, you WILL get full looted (unless they're not in the mood to do it).

i know pkilling can be fun. but the risk is too high. this is why people are afraid to go out to CPK zones when ever they see a pkiller on. what i'm trying to get to is that Pkilling is a part of this game. and we can improve the gaming experince by adjusting it, so that the pkillers are getting better rewards for pkilling, and the pkilled are getting less of a punishment for not being careful enough.

and storm… when you get killed, they'll take all of ur stuff, but then they'll try to sell some of them back to u. and if u have something really good, like perfect load on demons, goggletubes, etc. they might decide to keep it.

cough

Greetings and Salutations,

Killing your fellow player used to be a healthy and natural thing.

Whoa Whoa Whoa… stop for a second.. WTF is that icon down at the bottom of this page in the middle?! Gimp?! Why do we have pictures of retarded methed out foxes on here.. and why isn't the Linux bird crowing about having to be next to that circus act?.. i can tell he's pissed by the look on his face.. little help? Surely the dude doing globe reps on the left could kill it and save us all..

Oh wait, there's nothing that can be done about it..

IF this was back in the day, i'd kill it, and take all of it's family trinkets.. but, i don't feel like getting a criminal rep and basically being perm-killer flagged. IE. not being able to defend yourself when you know someone is coming after you. (It was bad enough with the few rooms that were non-violent, and now that the total has expanded with all the !pk, you're basically asking for people to screw with you all the time, and get dragged off to jail and lose all your eq)

Jail takes all of your eq, and you won't get it back, hard to swallow? you can't go out and loot another set, you may have 1 piece off of a corpse, why kill?

"inorder to promote Pkilling, i think we should make it so that a player doesn't lose all their goodies when he/she dies…"

How the hell is that promoting? It's not worth it. "In order to promote child rape we should give the death penalty to those who commit it."

knocks knuckles on skulls IS ANYONE LISTENING? waves hands in front of empty gazes

It is my sad duty to inform everyone, player killing was found dead in a ditch, and could only be identified by dental records.. It appears that it died quite some time ago. It is already dead, please stop trying to smear it's name.. and please leave it's children alone.

When you get killed by a "pro", you can only lose one piece of eq. Please, i know, doing meth with that retarded fox down there is fun, but srsly, try some fresh veggies with me and Skeeter sometime, it's twice as fun, good and good for you.

"i know pkilling can be fun. but the risk is too high. this is why people are afraid to go out to CPK zones when ever they see a pkiller on" who is afraid to go out into CPK? i don't know anyone.. an element of unpredictability that might have a negative outcome for you. "the risk is too high" ? huh?

and cast.. "and storm… when you get killed, they'll take all of ur stuff, but then they'll try to sell some of them back to u. and if u have something really good, like perfect load on demons, goggletubes, etc. they might decide to keep it."

Don't your clannies help you out if you're that overmatched that you can get even with whomever by yourself? You're describing PK as it was a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.. (sings memories…) I would call them the good old days. When someone got looted, people would stand up, and take notice, and sometimes go to war, not just - "oh hey everybody it's clanwars quest - remember about clanwars? and how fun they were, we're gonna bring it back, but you can't do X Y and Z and if you do you'll be booted from the quest." A far cry from the "i'm gonna junk all of this @$$holes stuff infront of 'em cause they've pissed me off that badly" days. Maybe you don't remember, or don't have the mindset, donno.

I'm sure Storm would love to catch you at a mudfest and shiv you in the gut and throw you down some stairs… taking you down to the.. BOTTOM PORCH! I'll be chillin' down there in the cut, waiting to full loot your body..

B*P 4-life

This post is dedicated in loving memory of Ashley Santos, who, like PK, was found dead in a ditch recently.. Ashley, you had a view of the world that was identical to mine.. I won't forget the days we saw the wind blowing all around us, and heard the sunshine as it rained down from above, all the while gently embracing the fleeting last days of summer.. hopefully i'll see you again, R.I.P. Chief

Cast, you're missing the WHOLE point of CPK. The zones that give the best experience and the most gold are all CPK because it should be risky to go level in them.

If you want the rewards, you have to take the risk. Otherwise, keep your ass in a safe !PK or NPK zone if you don't want to be killed and looted.

Yes, you can be full looted in a CPK zone, that's the point. It's risky for you, and profitable for a killer who wants to hunt in that zone.

PK is fine the way it is. It's balanced, easy to understand, and you can be completely protected until gen 5 if you want.

Caden, you are mostly correct. The current system is designed for a mud with quite a few more players than we have. If we had 30-40 players on at any given time, the current system would work much better. There would be a lot more killers and a lot more targets. Hopefully we can remedy that problem soon.

N

Although I won't shank you and throw you down the stairs, I'll certainly represent down on the BOTTOM*PORCH!

I must admit, I tend to side with Caden, here. PKilling is a far cry from what it used to be, and it doesn't occur nearly as often. With the introduction of !pk and NPK zones, being in a lot of the lower level zones in the game is about as risky as standing in the arena. Add in the waitstate imposed on looting player corpses, and it makes it very difficult to actually pull off a full loot.

This is not necessarily a problem. Low level players should, to some degree, be protected from pkill while they are learning the game. Setting low level zones !pk or NPK provides that protection. Immorts, however, should step back and assess which zones are set with which protection. Zones that are heavily used by high level morts, and mid- to high-gen remorts, should probably be switched to CPK, even if weaker characters are leveling there, too. I mean, frankly, if a zone is being used both by low-level and high-level characters, one of those two groups has no business being there.

I was thinking about this thread last night, and I came to a few conclusions about PK:

1. I like the reputation system. The reputation system is better than the old toughguy system, because in the old system, it was too easy to accidentally get a toughguy, and, therefore, be open season to anyone that had a beef. The new system makes you killable only after you're either high enough level to defend yourself, or start killing other players.

2. Pkillers should be allowed to loot corpses. If it isn't full loot, that's a concession I'd be willing to make, but I think if you go to the effort of tracking someone down and killing him/her, then you should at least be able to get a piece of eq out of it.

3. The jail system should be reworked. If you have a high enough rep, and you're in town, you get jacked by the guards, can't defend yourself (because you're constantly stunned), then you get full looted by the game. If I'm a pkiller, and I can't full loot another player, then why should the game be allowed to full loot me? Talk about disproportionate risk/reward…

4. PKilling is good for the Tempus economy. Right now, players have tons of equipment sitting in their houses taking up memory, costing a bunch of rent, and causing a clutter. If people aren't dying and losing eq, then there's no reason to buy eq, which means that no one is selling eq, and so eq is hoarded. Because players are too scared of the risk to go outside of their three or four zones that they like to run, they are very rarely killed by mobs, and therefore never lose their equipment, stagnating the economy.

5. PKilling is good for grouping, and for socialization in general. Grouping is a good way to protect yourself from a pkiller. Safety in numbers, and all that jazz. It's good for socialization, because if there is a big-name pkiller on, people will spend more time in NVZs to avoid him/her. Anytime that players congregate in NVZs, that's good for socialization. Also, there's a certain level of notoriety that goes along with pkilling. Everyone used to know who Broken, Mels, Machiaveli, or Adragan were.

6. PKilling is good for clans. Back in the day, your clan was your best defense against pkill. People actually cared about which clan they joined, because of the people in that clan, instead of joining whichever clan was convenient, or offered the best clan items. Entire clanwars were started just because a member was wrongfully pkilled. Now, it seems that the only reason people join clans is to get free recall, portals, and to get spam-leveled by their clannies.

It seems to me that for the most parts, the playerbase on Tempus is very afraid. This fear keeps fresh, exciting, zones from being explored. This fear causes people to hole up in their clanhouses at the first sign of a pkiller on the who list. Losing your equipment is not the end of the world. You got it somehow in the first place, right? That's part of the fun of the game! If someone gave you all of that equipment, then couldn't that same person be persuaded to give you some more? If you earned that equipment yourself, what's keeping you from going out and earning it again?

Just a few thoughts from an old fart.

This is not aimed at anybody specifically, but.

Most to all of this is irrelevant in light of the new system when it's implemented.

I'm all about discussion and butting heads untill the truth reveals itself and all, but right now everybody discussing is still stuck on how important eq is… which will not be the case in the near future.

Disclaimer:

All my rantings are given by inspiration of my interpritation, and are not profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, or for instruction in truth.

now that i can agree with.

The mud I'm on currently have decay rates, no EQ loss for pk, just EXP, it works just fine, but then again we have lots of things to build conflict, such as rival cities, rivalry systems, infamy, etc.

How can you be protected from pk untill gen 5 if you really want to be? Anyways, I always like hearing from Caden. However, after hearing about someone getting stabbed and dropped down stairs I don't think I want to come to mudfest lol.

Everyone has there big Opinon on pkill. However pkill is in the new born tempus I'm sure we will adjust to. Of course those of us who have been with tempus a long time love alot of the old ways things were done. Can only hope for the best and can't wait to see the new combat system. For all we know the changes could be so drastic that pkill system will have to change with the game. Or maybe it will be even better now.

Screw it… lets just make corpses unretrievable and your eq is just gone! That'd be fun. Not just pkill deaths, mind you… but any deaths! Muhahahahaha! -rubs hands together excitedly-

How about character burial upon first death?

With funerals… performed by the priest from Princess Bride.

Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

I've been in and out of tempus for over FOUR years now and people have always bitched about the pk policy. The imms have accomadated again and again and its been changed so many times that even i lost track of what the rules n restrictions are now. No matter what is done someone isnt going to like something about it. When I first started if you were level 25 mort or better you were fair game. This was when players like Miscreation were on a lot more. (He was like gen 7 or 8) I was maybe level 30 or so mort, and he used to waste me anytime he saw me. Full loot was also in play. People got it good now and should be greatful. I was away from tempus for a while, due to non game related matters, and was informed by a clannie that it is rare nowadays anyway. I don't pkill but the threat makes the game that much more exciting. To know you could be hunted is kind of a thrill. MOBs don't do that. Ok I'm done.

being hunted is a thrill, i agree. but…

ever go to heaven, and have a bunch of mobs come after you even when you flee? and most of the rooms are !recall?

you don't need pk as a thriller. just throwin' it out there.

How about mobs that act like pkilling players. Bard mobs that open a rift to you and kill/loot you. Mobs that go cross-zone/plane/time to chase you and kill you with the expertise of a master thief or psion with the stuns and loot you. Mobs that summon aligators or the like to eat your corpse after you're done or better yet junk your corpse. Then people wouldn't be so surprised when players do it it would be just par for the course.

Yes i have been to heaven and been through the no recall rooms. They also don't seem to like me up there due to my evil alignment. The few times I was up there it didn't go very well. Its not just being hunted that makes pk a thrill. I should have clarified a little more. Pk adds to the story, meaning if u are pked (its happened to me enough and it totally sucks) you now have conflict; a personal quest to get revenge on the bastard who wasted you. I don't pk. (anymore) It just adds a twist to the monotony of killing mobs, leveling, get gold, remort, kill mobs, level, get gold, remort, visit same zones over and over, etc. It gives the game a little twist. Like I said, getting wasted and looted is a nice hard swift kick in the balls, but it isn't the end of the world. You got your eq and gold before right? Its just a roadblock. Ok I'm done

Honestly, I can't sit idle about this subject,

PK has fallen so far off the map, and, it has become so beaten down…

""test""

=Hmm=

I was thinking, the same penalties for dying apply for people pk'd right? Or do you not lose lps/hp?

If pk didn't disrupt other people's experiences nearly as much I probably would just for fun. As it is pk can hinder people leveling up a bunch, maybe a way to revitalize PK would be to reduce the penalties of being the victim of PK.

Example: If I/others didn't have to reimplant when they died from PK, I would be all about friendly PK with the people I know on the mud. When you're dependent on your equipment to keep you competitive and it costs ALOT to either use a borg or buy a ticket it won't be fun to get killed in PK.

I know I may be comparing Tempus to the Devil however I really liked the PK idea in WoW where you don't get equipment damage from PK and that you don't risk losing nearly as much as Tempus. Now I think that's unrealistic in Tempus but here are some ideas.

I present the following scenario for PK:

1) Get rid of NPK, make sure that additonal cities and certain vendors are !PK rooms but really if the penalties of dying in this way are reduced it shouldn't matter much.

2) Reduce costs of using the retriever drastically based on generation (if somone is gen 1 maybe 20% of full price, gen 9 = 90%. (these can be really expensive to low gens especially)

""Here's where the changes really start.""

3) Implants stay implanted (see #6) and the player who is PKilled has a 10 second waitstate for the PKer to loot, this is much nicer on the PKer and with the loot cap below isn't that bad.

4) Loot cap - The # of pieces that can be looted depends on the difference in gen/level (more pieces for a smaller difference in gen/level, however probably capping at maybe four pieces (debate?) gen 10 vs. gen10 because there are additional benefits of PK with the system described in #5.

5) Add some type of reward system for pk, maybe you get an ear or mark of honor automatically when you make a kill and you can trade those to a vendor for items (potions and for ALOT of them maybe tickets or enchants) or gold. This idea could even be expanded to have different shops in different cities with different items, etc.

Maybe if a player really wanted your implants: *6) A command added for players only to loot implants (NOT mobs), this would be a % chance and is easier if the equipment on top of that spot is looted first. These loots, successful or not would count against your max pieces.

This could make PK worthwhile and have people not worried about losing too much about being PK'd which would EASE tensions that always seem to make the game currently MUCH less fun when PK happens.

What do you think?

I forgot to add that at the end of that 10 second waitstate the person automatically respawns with their remaining implants.

Equipment damage would still happen due to wear and tear of being killed but the person would still have much of it left.

One variation on this is at the end of the 10 PK loot time seconds the person automatically respawns with their remaining eq and implants still equipped and implanted. Also a set amount of money automatically taken for the resurrection.

If anything overlaps current workings, I apologize, I don't pk too much.

Would a change even make much of a difference in today's Tempus? It looks like everyone is everyone's buddy nowadays.

There's a huge power disparity between people who walk the walk, and the newer folk who try to talk the talk. It all ends up bad news bears in the end for whoever doesn't try to have friends in today's Tempus, yet has the audacity to "poke the sleeping giant(s)" for fun.

PK is such a rare sight. If it even happens, it's like watching that US versus Germany basketball game from this year's Olympic games (2008)– super stacked.

I think any kind of game-change focus should be related to marketing Tempus to reach new players and/or diversifying gameplay to possibly bring back old ones.

Maybe with a larger playerbase, PK could evolve, or devolve, or actually return.

Just my thoughts.

-R/R

What's wrong with talking about changing pk for the better. After all, it is just talk. I'm sure Bry doesn't expect anything to happen, just a nice discussion would be awesome.

…Aaaaaaand…after reading the suggestions several times over, I really can't say much at all. I'd really like to comment on how it would or wouldn't increase PK, but I'm not sure how things would turn out. I've never been a victim in this current PK system.

Just taking rep gain away from NPK would probably encourage some friendly PK between clans such as Paragon, Pariah and Quiet Storm, I am fairly certain that there are a few of us in those clans who wouldn't mind jumping each other if we didn't have to worry about making the other person lose LPs or rep gain. Plus most of us have borgs now so we can just reimplant each other shrug