Yeah, it's me again. Grab a beverage.

So the hot topic these days is the problem with leveling. You can either level in Mavernal until yer eyes explode, or you can be part mage and easily take on just about any leveling zone on the game. There is something terribly wrong with this.

My gen 7 knight/phyz can't handle a single round with a mob that is supposedly on his level. While a gen 2 monk/mage can go make a sandwich during battle and have no fear of actually getting hit by the exact same mob.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying elementals need to get the ol' heave ho. What I am saying is that having conjured tanks should not be the only way to level a character on Tempus.

Now, It wasn't long ago that most people on Tempus thought being secondary mage was like being secondary chicken soup. What changed? What changed was a little bug fix that made all the mobs about 10x harder than they were. Insert conjured tanks. Yes, I know that if it was a bug it needed to be fixed. The problem lies in the fact that the mud had been based around that bug for a very long time, and mob attack power still seems based on that bug.

Let me explain. If I was to make a mob that I wanted to be for high gen characters, I would set its stats then test it out. The stats make sense in theory, but With that bug in place he would be a pansy, so I would obviously boost its stats to compensate for the bug, and more closely match the level of player I was looking for. Now suddenly that bug is gone, the mob hasn't changed, but what has changed is that the bug no longer reduces the mob's attack power. So we had a mob that seemed fine, but wasn't because of a bug, that was boosted to compensate, then the bug was taken out, but the boost was not. Then you get vaporized 6 times a round and die from a mob you used to be able to handle without much ado.

So the argument usually falls to grouping. Being in a group doesn't particularly help. There is still one character that is going to be taking the brunt of the attacks, and without divine help he will still have his ass handed to him. If getting more people to group was the focus here, then having mobs have stupid attack power is not the way to go. It would be giving mobs double hitpoints, and exp boosts, but that's a story for a different day.

Back to the point. I can level because I'm weird. There are a handful of us on the mud that are also weird. Chances are we are going to level quickly no matter what happens. The problem is that every newbie on Tempus is facing challenges that are really intended for us weirdos. They hit that brick wall, the game becomes overly tedious and then they quit. I would really like to see leveling put back into Tempus. Take out the crazy attacks, add hitpoints to encourage grouping, have zones for solo characters, zones for groups, zones for weirdos.

It all still points to making Tempus enjoyable to play again. Really play. For everyone. Not just mages :p

That's what I think. I await your thoughts.

Too bad nothing will happen.

Took the words right out of my mouth Wrath.

I recently started leveling a monk for the first time ever, and was cruising along as a monk/borg for 3 gens. In my 30's of gen 3, I was doing VW because it was…how to phrase it? The most difficult thing he could handle while still making good experience (aka the best zone he could level at!) At level 48, he was STILL doing VW because once again, it was the most difficult thing he could handle. The next logical jump from VW is Dracharnos…I tried that, started attacking one of the "easy" mobs there, got slapped in 1 round from full health to less than 200, fled, and promptly recalled.

Why is it that a zone has to be either so insanely easy you could fall asleep and still accidentally clear it, or so insanely hard you shouldn't even bother? It never used to be like that, there was a logical progression of zones to go to, and a reasonable scale of difficulty. Even if you went to one of the "bigger" zones, you certainly didn't face imminent death, you just had to actually focus and plan things out. There is no planning anymore, its either bring a group with such overwhelming force that the exp isn't even worth it, or go remort mage. My choice? Go mage…and let me say it now, I HATE BEING /MAGE. Always have, always will. The ONLY reason is because of those elementals, and the fact that because of them I can actually do a zone without getting butchered.

I remember before I stopped leveling Endymion, a gen 6 ranger/psi, he could do Dracharnos reasonably well. By no means was it easy, but it also wasn't so insane that even with stoneskin, sanctuary, nopain, dermal, and thornskin on top of it all that I'd still be getting my butt wiped across the floor with ANY mob there.

Leveling right now is not fun, its a chore. I'd love to have a choice in what i remort as, and not be /mage until gen 10, and then finally remort to a class that isn't that only to have to beg my gen 2 friend who is a /mage to help me level because he can now do harder zones than me.

It's weird… it's like… no one's listening…

We know about the situation, and despite what you may believe we are figuring out a way to handle the situation. "Putting the Bug Back" is not an appropriate solution, and "revamp end rebalance every zone" is currently unfeasible. Stay tuned sports fan for the exciting conclusion.

I'm looking forward to this solution.

When I solely played mortal characters back in the day, my ranger named Skeeter became the fourth gen 10 ever (stupid Noob/Reptile beat me by a week!), and I hardly ever leveled. My philosophy was one of exploration, I would simply travel everywhere and kill everything, having very little idea of what the 'best' zone was for exp. Eventually I gleaned that knowledge, but I never felt that leveling was a chore, as I didn't kill mobs primarily for the exp, I killed them to see what eq they had and what lie around the next corner.

I understand what you are saying about elementals, but truly, the notion of parity between classes is a myth. Yes, there is a strive for balance, but as every class is different, there are bound to be some advantages to playing one class over another in certain situations. Multiple classes give you multiple options of how to play your characters, and you get to choose what is the most fun for you.

Small changes happen on Tempus all the time, most of them without your knowledge. Personally, I like to hug elementals when I see them; they look so lost outside their elemental plane, I just want to squeeze the bejesus out of them and pinch their puffy cheeks.

I offer no progress promises of any sort except that we will continue working to make Tempus more fun.

W

Now I understand why it is so difficult for me to level.  I never knew about this bug that came and went, but it all fits.  Just today I was leveling with Seraph in fassan.  It was surprising to find out that we were the exact same level, and exact same gen.  Yet how is it that he can clear fassan with no problems on his own, and I am left struggling at VW for about an hour to clear the boys?  I asked Seraph, and he said that he knew the Tempus like the back of his hand, and he has amazing eq to show for it.  Obviously, me being the newb, I can't compete with this knowledge, and only in several gens will I even have a hope to.
It's not fair that us newbies have to be stuck at one zone, struggling and dying many a time.  As I said, I never knew that this bug may have been a factor in it.  But it shouldn't be that the "weird" people can clear drachs and fassan at gen 3.  And us newbies shouldn't have to go /mage just to clear some zones.  
Also this night after I first read this, I was chatting with Crescendo about it.  I said, ahhh now I know why leveling is so difficult for me.  He replied, "you should try monk/mage, then you could do fassan too!".
That shouldn't be the answer, I replied back.  I know, he said.
We shouldn't have to have our secondary class be mage just to make leveling a little easier.  This bug should be fixed, so us non-weirdos can level without frustration, stuck at one zone.

The bug was fixed. thats why mobs hit so hard now. there was a bug that was making mobs load with no dam/hitroll. im not positive but i think this may have been done before you started, so you wouldnt really notice any difference.

OK, I got my facts a little mixed up. But because the bug was taken away, mobs hit harder. Even though I may not have been around for the time where the bug was there and then was taken away, it still means that I get hit a lot and it knocks off a lot of damage. If i go to an easier zone, it means i get sucky exerience. So leveling is a challenge.

Hi! It's Johnny on the spot!

• You do not need elementals to clear a zone.

• You do NOT need elementals to clear a zone.

• YOU DO NOT NEED ELEMENTALS TO CLEAR A ZONE.

I like that last one better, it has more emphasis.

• My barb/phyz doesn't need elms, my phyz/monk doesn't need elms, my cler/barb doesn't need elms, my knight/cler doesn't need elms, my bard/phy doesn't need elms, my psio/cler doesn't need elms, my monk/phy doesn't need elms, my monk/merc doesn't need elms, my rang/cler doesn't need elms, an I know I'm forgetting a few,

• if you find yourself playing a class/combo that sucks, *cough*monk/cybcough You can either devlop better tactics or find another secondary that doesn't suck. (I hated monk/cyb before the wipe, and I think I'd hate it just as much now as I did then, it's a horrible combo)

But honestly, you do not need elementals to level. You need Tactics. I've only got 2 mage chars, a mage/phy, and a merc/mage, the latter I never play, and the former I only use incase all my other chars fail in a zone and I need a massive rescue to get it all back.

• Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt…

you bring up chars like your kni/cler which you keep a fresh set of devils to tank for you with first of all. second of all monk/borg is far from sucking. my monk was borg from gen 2 till gen 10 and i cleared the zones i wanted to with relative ease. the fact is you dont need elemantals to clear zones it just makes it easier. i just remorted the first char ive genned up mage and only did it because its easier to level.

Yes, I did mention my evil knight as one of my characters who do not require the assistance of elementals. I do often summon a legion of devils to keep me company. I also mentioned my phy/monk, whom does not have elementals, nor devils to keep him company. He finds comfort in math and other dumb numbers stuff. Pi*r^in mah belly! I don't quite agree with the premsis that one requires elementals to level, or has to run VW, or Mavernal until their eyes pop out, I never run VW or Mavernal, it's a pretty big game, lots of zones, no need to keep running the same one over and over. Lizards, Merq city, arch. dig, great dismal delve, unholy mod, graz'zt, gith, ebony tower, even though I make fun of it.. Death Row, skullport, lvl 5 hell, wemics, shade city, glacial rift, learander, ect ect ect…

I was attempting to stay on topic in reguards to the previous posts, I frequently get accused of rambling and straying way off-topic. Much to the amusement of some :P

I never addressed the Insane mob damage part.. It is pretty harsh, Part of the reason not to attempt to lead groups into mass-mob situations, even if you can tank, it's a matter of time before one mob or another makes one of your groupies flee, and or/die. It requires immense patience to undertake any such endeavour… It's possible…. you'd almost have to want it beyond reason.

I'm thinking the sorts of trying to lead a group through level 1 hell, I'm sure a good aligned knight/mage (not for the elms, for the sanc'd chain), grouped with a good aligned cleric/psionic could probably wreck shop down there. A monk/cyb group with a merc/physic or something would probably get their shop wrecked down there.

Should both should be able to run lvl 1 hell? I doubt all classes and combos should be exactly the same and have the same ability.

If you like monk/cyb, by all means, I'm not telling anyone how to play. It's just not my cup of tea, cause it sucks (my opinion :P)

-Caw

I don't think mobs were created with the bug in play.

Even though I keep explaining this to others repeatedly, here is what the bug is:

Any affect that would reduce a mob's hitroll by any amount would actually set it to 0 and any affect after that would reduce it normally. The bug did not affect damage, only the mob's ability to hit (IF it were afflicted with some sort of hitroll-debuff.)

I'm an imm. I'm going to create a mob for a low level zone. Let me see, 125 damroll should do it. Oh no, it's too strong. Wait, let me alpha pinch it with my tester. Ah, perfect…

…I don't think so.

Anyway, some mobs still hit pretty hard for what they give. And when I go kill things, I always feel inclined to have someone else tank for me. But I feel like that for any RPG-type game. I believe the real problem here is the elements' ease of use. Yeah, each class has its own advantage but only mage allows me to play Tempus with my feet.

What really gets my goat is the butchering of La'Mogra.

Barb skill drag helps in la'mog, not sure how else it got shredded.

Yeah, the ways to fish out the demons were reduced, so drag is pretty rockin' there.

It's not the difficulty, but the insanely crappy experience that really hurts.

I completely reject that you have to have elementals to do stuff,

Tactics, learn them, love them, live them. (and no, Glint) They are not "cheap" or "lame" they are called Tactics…..

Elementals will not save you when push comes to shove,

You will face the claws of the whirlwind which drags in you if you solely rely on them….

Sorry to dig up old posts, but I missing this Caden dude. Everything he posts is pretty funny…