We'd like feedback on the PK system. What would make you participate more in player PK? What would make you participate less or not at all? Best parts? Worst parts? What are your motivations to PK? Are the penalties of PK as a victim too high? As an aggressor?

Also.. I meant to post this from Synthesis, your friendly neighborhood implementor.

there is absolutely nothing you or anyone else can do to make me participate in PK. I've been lucky my entire time playing this game, having been pk'd once, by kraz/misc.

the main reason I don't pk is because the game isn't built around it. player characters are built to deal damage to mobs with up to, and sometimes over, 30 times player HP. you cannot ever hope to balance player vs player damage because of that without coding in a completely separate damage model for pvp combat, and even if you do do it, its going to be a complete nightmare to balance. it literally wouldn't be worth the effort to make the few pkers who still play this game happy.

the other reason I want absolutely nothing to do with pk is because the entire premise of pk is to get your fun at the expense of someone else's fun. that is the definition of greifing and harassment, and im 100% positive that harrasement and greifing is against tempus policy.

its absolutely no fun, and doesn't make the slightest lick of sense in a game with so low a population already, to subject someone to the sudden loss of character progression (in the form of looting) simply because someone else was bored, or feeling like a dickwad.

the only reason I stuck around after losing every last piece of gear I owned to kraz was because he sold it back to me for literally every last gold piece I had. according to the policy at the time, he didn't even have to do that, which meant that everything I had worked for, would have been gone in an instant and there would have been nothing I could have done about it. when it happened, people didn't just give gear away, they charged ridiculous (for a level 30ish mortal) prices for even the easiest gear to load. to a new player whos just learning the game that's a huge. huge loss.

yes, the penalties for victims of pk is far too high

the penalties for pk as an aggressor are far, far too low.

again, this is just my personal opinion, but if the only way you can have fun in game, or resolve an issue in game, is to be a complete and total jackass, then the penalties need to match, or you need to find another game that's built around player vs player.

bah, then entire first paragraph of my post was cut off

the following should be at the very top, before anything:

this entire post is my, and only my, opinion, and nothing should be construed as anything else

I agree with Rauss. Anything that allows a player to troll someone off the mud should be done away with. Random drops and full loots do not go together.

The player base is too small to support pk. I feel player vs player is valuable, as it adds a dangerous element to the game. Human controlled players are more sophisticated than mobs.

Currently, I see pvp more appropriate in a quest (set arena) setting. Perhaps the in world arena can be upgraded to a coliseum, where plauers can go against each other. It would be structured with arena setting, but gold will transfer to the winner. Could be a fun way to test your mettle against real players and earn rent money.

You could even make wagers! Someone can put up any combination of equipment, cash, or even qps on the line in a fight. Winner take all.

You could then do team/clan matches.

You get excitement, incentive, and bragging rights. All without player character penalties (loss of lp, eq, etc) except what is risked and agreed on.

Perhaps have a ladder. With the #1 person earning a bonus for being champion. Maybe free rent, gold, or qp.

It gives the imms flexibility to expand or contract. Regular pk may just fade away because it is frowned upon.

Got an issue with someone? Putting your money where your mouth is and settle it in the coliseum.

Once the partipants begin, they are set arena and teleported randomly into the world. Nvz do not protect them and !recall to clan or house until a victor arises.

If you are against plauer vs player no need to participate or worry about someone just getting ya for their own laughes.

What do you all think?

While I've played a part in ruining a number of player's experience on Tempus and taken their happiness as my own, I agree.

Even though the PK system was changed it still greatly resembles a fresh and somewhat populated Tempus. I know if I had lost all of my equipment, even if it were all replaceable, it would discourage me from playing more. I also can see where some might disagree and tell me to suck it up and stop being a bitch. Older players were all picked on by bigger players before they became big themselves. I was one of them. Tempus could afford to lose a few players before but not anymore.

Yeah, we need a new PK system. What that system should be? I don't know but it shouldn't be based on the Conservation of Happiness.

I would like to entertain the idea of just making all PK arena and making PK available anywhere except No_Violence rooms

This has a few advantages:

1) Since it's all arena, it's all just for fun. No looting at all, no loss of implants or tattoos.

2) If desired we can set a small PK reward just for fun if we like. EX. The player who does the PK getting 50k gold from the player getting pk'd (maybe the amount goes up depending on the gen of the player pk'd)

3) Griefing is still against the rules and should be enforced. Maybe set a cap of 2 times per character per day. Enforced if someone complains but otherwise not coded.

This would make pk an option again for those who like it for the thrill and skill, and not too much of a disruption for those getting PK'd.

A corresponding readjustment of the CRIMINAL rep levels would be needed of course.

Perhaps if players really wanted to go hardcore they could turn a flag ON or OFF which would make it so they could die normally in PVP. But the default would be as if they had the ARENA flag in a quest.

Plus the player who is getting attacked is much less likely to recall immediately because the penalties of actually fighting aren't really there. This might lessen the hunt/recall hunt/recall hunt/recall cycle that happens.

So suppose it were arena like, or suppose we just did more arena PK quests. What's fun about these quests? Not fun? Fair? Not fair? Do players of equal skill and investment have an equal chance, or are certain classes/combinations dominant? Could a good Cleric/Psi have the same chance as an evil Kni/Phy? Can skilled, invested players survive the first hit and battle back, or is it all about getting the first drop? Are any classes disqualified because they can't do X?

I'm going to reply to everyone that I feel deserves a reply, in the order they posted. Rauss: Player vs player damage is actually already balanced: damroll, saves, attributes, and eq in general, is what balances that. The way you describe pk is totally untrue. You describe it as 100% freudenschade, which it is not. People want to fight each other, and that is ok. Yes, in some cases you are right, but not in most. To generalize all pkers as bored and/or dickwads, just means you didn't practice enough. Guess what, every person who played when you did got pk'd by misc, me included. I was also unhappy about it, but that didn't stop me. Rather than complain, you could put in the time to build your char up just like the people who pk'd you did. They didn't magically become badasses. You actually think that because you don't agree with this game, it needs to change and people who want to pk need to go elsewhere?, I'm not saying the pk system is perfect, but what you are saying sounds like, "everyone is crazy except me'". So solve your own problem and play a game with no pvp, how is that not the obvious answer? Drystan: How can anyone "troll'" someone else off the mud? Let's really look at the facts here. You lost all your stuff, I know. You were breaking the rules in a way that made it unfair for every other player. By making it unfair I mean using your illegal eq in quests which gives everyone else less of a chance to win, not to mention leveling faster than any other person is able to do. So don't try and play the victim here when you were raping the system. How many people have actually lost all their eq recently? Drystan, who was cheating in a ridiculous manner, I knew there was a reason he was so good but it didn't make sense. Before that, Eternal, who was doing even more ridiculous amounts of cheating to be on top. Deneb: I agree with you, but this is not an "everyone gets a medal'" game. Yes we were probably molded by the game at that time and I get that. Losing all my stuff would certainly discourage me from playing also. I agree that nothing in this game is perfect. This is a game of accumulation, which basically equals time. So we can't penalize the players who spend more time perfecting their game. Brywing, I know you also got killed, but you were afk in heaven, so I don't really have a good answer for that, and I think you got the majority of your stuff back. Also, I always gave your clan members back their stuff, or most of it, and I was never a "dickwad'" about it. I'm not saying I'm innocent here, I'm just saying let us look at it from a reasonable point of view.

Heh I wasn't even referring to me. I was just saying the option is there. I had that chip for like a month moment of weakness big deal I got what was coming to me move on. I did.

First of all, I think the PK system is really fair, and perhaps it is a bit unfair toward PKillers.

However, due to the situation of the players on the MUD, some players have spent years honing their skills and accumulating equipment to make their characters nearly unbeatable, while those who don't have as much have no chance to compete. There's nothing wrong with this- it just doesn't encourage some of us (including me) to engage in PK.

I'll throw out some ideas for the hell of it. 1. Change the bounty system so that you could bounty non-criminals. Non-criminals would be notified that another player has decided to bounty them, so they could prepare and watch out (criminals will just have to watch out all the time). Make the registration process expensive (a few mil?) so that only serious players would register.

1. Add a reward (experience?) to surviving PK and sticking it in there, and/or getting a few shots back. The longer they survive, the more reward they get.

Now, I realize that the above suggestions could potentially be abused, but perhaps you guys could help me think of ways that would prevent that (e.g. high registration fees for bounties, etc.).