A short list of how to fix Barbarians, in my opinion.

Make dual wield not equal for all classes. For example, a Barbarian should be able to dual wield without having the restriction of the 6 lb or half rule. I am not saying he or she should be able to dual wield Mjolnirs or Acidics, but it would be nice to see a Barbarian have not the ¹⁄₂ and 6 rule (Your secondary must weigh half your primary or less unless your primary and secondary both weigh less than six), but rather a ¹⁄₂ and 10 rule. This would further show that they are weaponmasters, and make great use of their strength.

Barbarians were skilled fighters, and I compare them to Ye Olde Warrior class. They are not stupid, but they are not educated.

Remove tag, clothesline, bodyslam, and so on, which remains from their wrestling days. They are not wrestlers, which is why I believe piledrive was removed.

Add a skill, whose name I am indifferent to, that has a chance to stun and a chance to disarm. For example, arm, wrist, and hand hits have a chance to disarm, and head, face, neck, throat, and perhaps ear and back have a chance to stun.

Any other ideas, folks? Comments on mine?

Merriam

I also like the idea of giving barbs the ranger's critical strike skill, but making it an actual skill that you train. Higher level/gen, the more likely you'll land a critical strike.

Fix - as you would a dog, or a cat?

The restrictions on duel wielding are the same for classes, true - that doesn't mean duel wield is equal for all classes. Not sure why any prime would want to duel wield as a Barb anyway [see: discipline of steel].

Barbs were, and are not now, skilled fighters? Not sure which Ye Olde Warrior class you're refering to (D&D? - Tempus Warrior class?) While berserk barbs are "stupid".

Wrestlers do indeed use moves such as clothesline, bodyslam and so on - not sure why that can't be done by a skilled fighter "just because Strongbad does". Tag can be cool, never met another Barb that had it learned when grouping though.

Indifferent name - "wipesyrupoffsomeonewithaballon" as a skill for a chance to stun/disarm automatically? Random chance to disarm/knock down based two_hander & gen & lvl (like critial hit) would seem cool. Stunning being the knock to the ground, trip waitstate?

Not sure about crit hit for Barbs.

the wrestling moves that barbs have seem to fit quite well but the effects of the moves dont seem to be what they should…

you would figure that a bodyslam would leave your opponent on the ground? you would figure that clothesline since in the message you get when hit by it says you are knocked to the ground would also leave you grounded

barbs could get a more advanced disipline of steel as the get higher in gens…like someone in another post put adding small amounts of damroll before a battle but a very small amount…

I understand discipline of steel, but a barbarian should also get a chance to dual wield, and to do so in a manner different from the other classes. I also think that I was saying a Barbarian is closer to an Uneducated Warrior than a Entertaining Wrestler. Keep in mind that real wrestlers don't piledrive anyone, or bodyslam them, and so on. I also based my comments on trying to develop a new identity for Barbarian, since Grunting Ogre isn't quite it, and Wrestler was cast aside by one of the previous coders.

By indifferent to the name, I meant the coders could call it something reasonable. I did not say the name does not matter.

I believe Barbarians need a redefinition; a facelift.

Merriam

Piledrive has been out for a long while - not sure why anyone has to assocate barb with wrestler, and would like to see a bunch of skills ripped out because they think it's like wrestling.

Not Grunting Ogre, nor wrestler, but like Conan who worships krom - the god of steel.

I didn't say the name doesn't matter either, i just thought that was a cool name to call a skill, and since it doesn't exsist, it's better than calling it skillX - lets continue to call it "wipesyrupoffsomeonewithaballon". :D

Wouldn't call it a facelift, or botox, just slight refinement - evolution even.

As a side tangent, "Entertainment Wrestling" moves can be used by just about anyone in a fight. Clotheslines and bodyslams are pretty standard moves.

I direct your attention to the movie: "James Bond, The Spy Who Loved Me" as a prime example (it was on AMC a bunch of times this weekend, along with a commercial for swing dance lessons). Under the pyramids, James Bond whoops up on some Russian spies by clotheslining AND bodyslamming them.

It's totally sweet.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that just because they're named after "Entertainment Wrestling" moves doesn't meant that people wouldn't also use them in a fight.

I'm also a little confused about what "real wrestling" is. Greco-Roman wrestling? Though it's been awhile since I studied the classics, I think at least bodyslams were involved in Greco-Roman wrestling at one point.

Piledrive and tag seem to me to be "Entertainment Wrestling" moves. I don't think tag would work in real battle. I don't think piledrive fits either. You are right: bodyslam and clothesline seem fine.

I just thought if they are supposed to be weapon masters (as the coders have stated) then they ought to be more weapon-focused, and less my-body-is-my-weapon focused, which seems either very wrestler or very monk.

Sincerely,

Merriam

There are 3 forms of 'real wrestling' collegiate, freestyle, and greco-roman. Im pretty sure you can't body slam in any of them :D

Throws are another story, a barbarian who had an assortment of different throws would be pretty sweet, because like what part of their body you threw them on could disable them temporarily in a different place or something. And yes, throws are 100% part of 'real wrestling'

ok colligate and freestyle wrestling are both based off of greco roman…that is real wrestling and yes you can bodyslam your opponent as well as suplex them…and its perfectly legal :)…on another note piledrive hasnt been a barb skill since i started back in 2003…and i agree tag seems a little cheesy

I dont think there is anyting wrong with the 'wrestling' moves so long as they have some real in game affect. It sounds like bodyslam and clothesline dont do much now except hit your opponent. I don't know since dont have a barb. But i totall agree with the other posters about adding an affect to these two skills. so what about this?

Bodyslam or Hurl- You pick up your opponent and throw him down, either onto the ground or possibly into another enemy knocking them both down. This reminds me of the movies where the super strong barbarian picks up one bad guy and throws him into the crowd of enemies knocking some of them down and gainging a few seconds to get ready to smash the whole rabble. This knock down would be the big one like hiptoss.

Clothesline or ? - With his weapon or brute strength the barbarian takes a mighty swing at the throat of his opponent. This could have several affects, possibly making the opponent lose his breath and start running out of air or making it harder to cast spells that have a verbal component etc. Perhaps it could also have a chance to knock them down like sweepkick, not as strong as bodyslam but still a chance.

Here's a quote from the Conan movie that i thought might inspire some more ideas! BTW Conan is what i think of as a typical barbarian, he was uneducated but not stupid.

Mongol General: Wrong! Conan, what is best in life?

Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!

Mongol General: That is good.

I know i'm not adding new ideas but i thought this might be something relatively easy to add to existing code….maybe?

what do you guys think?

I disagree with Lysolchip. Let's keep critical hits to rangers only. It's just about the only useful original thing we have.

OR

Let ALL classes be able to learn a skill that lets them critical hit, and give Rangers a remort skill called Improved Critical (or whatever) that increases their critical hit percentage.