We need more grouping in order to do any zone in the game. I personally think most hard places and where nice eq loads are hard for a reason. Groups would be able to do much better. Everyone thinks they should be able to tank and destroy anything by themselfs. The fact is, tempus is meant to be a group experanced game. This is why each class to his/her own so to speak. What would be the best groups of 2, what would be the best group of 3? Any ideas….

My opinion on best group of 3. Bard/Physic Monk/Cyborg Cleric/Psionic (evil)

Best group of 2. Bard/Physic Monk/Psionic

I haven't experienced enough grouping to know which ones are the best. But I do know that Mage/Physic and Monk/Psionic works well, and so does Ranger/Physic with Monk/Psionic. Thief/Mage, Mage/Physic, Monk/Psionic also kicks butt.

These are the experiences I have with my clan members.

no bards and cleric in our clan yet? I think a evil clerics would work well w/ a mage. go to a place where mobs cant cast spells, mage use meteor(or cleric w/ the earthquake), cleric rescue w/ unholy stalkers, then just sit back and enjoy. haha.

the problem with grouping is that one person usually has to be quite a bit stronger then the others, because mobs generally dont distribute their attacks around evenly, they mostly hit one person. So while you can kill much faster, one person still has to be able to tank in order to save the group.

That's true, but sometimes grouping can solve that. When I'm low level, as a thief I usually can't tank shit. It's frantic backstabs and retreats until I get stun, and I usually get beat up quite a bit. Solution? Group with a monk. I can tank most of Dracharnos easily like that even with a low level/gen monk… something I couldn't do at all by myself. Trip + hiptoss assures that nothing can stay on its feet long enough to hit me.

I think that a guardian demon/angel, should be allow to be ordered around, so that they can tank for u. and u should be allowed to call them back by sacrificing an item(cant come up w/ a name yet…) and they will be yours untill you get the skill desired.

i think that the whole thing with grouping on tempus is…ppl just dont wanna group…i will agree that we could use more grouping but its hard to come by… most of the time if you ask someone or just project if anyone wants to group they think that you want free exp…in some cases thats true…i know that sometimes ppl ask to group so they can explore a new zone or they want help with something…i cant count the times i had to log on my mage to sit and summon cres in cybertech if he needed it…as far as hell and stuff like that go…i rarely see anyone running hell anymore…the most ppl do is dis anymore cause most of the time it takes a few ppl to run hell and not many ppl want to risk dying…hell eq can sell for alot and the money there is wonderful if there is only like 3 or 4 ppl and you do a few levels…but for the most part i think its the risk factor that turns ppl off

Well put, Bushido. I agree with everything you've said. I think the way it is now is the way it's going to be. It's true that no one runs hell anymore because of the risk. It's not so much that the rewards of grouping are too low to encourage it, but that people just don't really want to group.

If i could get dirs through hell, and get someone to tell me how to avoid DT's, i'd probably do it. but until then, im stayin away :D

i think something should be added inorder to avoid DTs, it should depeend on your dex, when it's really high, u get a better percentage of fleeing from a DT, but it would would not exceed over 50%. or we can make it a skill or something.

just my two cents…

There is a way to avoid DTs, it's called reading room descriptions and checking exits. It's common sense to avoid rooms called Blazing Pit of Fire and Death, and room descriptions always say something like "To the east, you feel an ominous aura of death" or something like that. Builders spend a lot of time writing room descriptions, and if you want to avoid DTs, then all you have to do is take the time to read them.

I realize this is difficult to do when you're being attacked by wave after wave of devils, but it's Hell. It's supposed to be hard.

I agree with San. Bush your right on. Its true many people would be much stronger now if they never hit a dt but this is a way to balance the game. As much as I hate that I lost over 90damroll and -500 ac in a dt the truth is with hard work and determination you can become stronger and learn from yuor mistakes. It is just part of the game.

I love it when I see you smart cats think things through to their logical end. It gives me warm tinglies all over.

I'll pose a question for you guys… And its for you big guys with the houses full of eq.

Why are you so afraid to DT when I know you have seven sets of spare eq in your houses… or in some cases coughLYSOLcough MORE?

I know it takes awhile to customize your eq just the way you want it.. but isnt that one of the fun things, steadily getting better? You can only get so good before things just don't matter anymore (i.e. having 137 damroll does no good).

Hell, one or two of my characters need to DT because their eq is all outdated…

90 dam roll? what are u? god?

I so do not have more than 7 sets of spare eq in my house :-P…

Anyway, it's not so much my normal eq that I'm afraid of losing. Sure, that stuff I can always get back again, even though it may take a while. What does suck to lose is quest eq and things that you buy with qps (imm enchants/attacts). It's really disappointing when you lose everything at once, especially knowing the amount of work it took to get it or knowing you received that piece of eq from winning a hard fought quest. It's like stripping the gold medal from an Olympic winner!

Having said that, I was never for completely removing DTs from the game. They're there to force people to be careful when they explore and they're there to help with game balance. I hit my fair share of DTs and damage traps my few years playing.

However, one big negative with DTs that seems to be big now is the fact that few people actually explore zones now. When a zone is first released, how many people actually go into it and explore and how many people wait on a clannie to report on what kind of eq there is and if there are any DTs?

I think I like how DTs are set up now. They're put into only the high gen (minus the car crusher in E.C. junkyard and the death machine in KKI - yes, this one isn't technically a DT…) and there is usually a clear warning about death and destruction that warns a player about it if they actually choose to read the descripts.

well as far as lysol hitting a dt…..he hordes all his quest prizes so im sure he has like 50 trans tickets so that something that some ppl dont have to worry about….a trans ticket lets you to into anyroom in the game with one touch of the enter key from a local immortal….yea you might have to spend a pretty penny to get one….but its well worth at least having one in your house for good keeping….as for losing eq i have like half an eq set for 2 different chars all mixed into one…if i were to die and lose everything it would be devistating esspecially since i dont play no where near as much as before and have no money….

I don't really care for DT's, I think they are silly. However with eq the way it is currently they're also necessary to help flush stuff out. Later if/when eq doesn't matter so much my vote is to get rid of them.

Heh…I do not have 7 spare sets of equipment and I do not have 50 trans tickets…I do not like green eggs and ham, I do not like them, Sam-I-Am…You guys are totally exaggerating what I have.

Hell, I'd venture to say that since wizlist, maybe only 5 or 6 trans tickets have even been rewarded as quest prizes.

The problem with grouping is the other people involved.

Even though it is a multiplayer game, Tempus generally isn't set up to be played in groups. Sounds odd doesn't it? My point is that the actual grouping code isn't much different than the stock Diku or Circle mud code, in that grouping in general is basically the same as fighting alone. I'm sure there has been some tweaking involved, don't get me wrong, but most multiplayer games are focused on the grouping aspect of the game, and the other facets are secondary. Tempus really isn't geared in this manner.

A couple of examples of what I mean. On many MMORPG's when you group with another player you gain a bonus to your experience when you kill a monster. Not a split by the number of people in your party, but a true bonus. I kill Monster and get 10 exp. I let my friend Bob in on the action and we kill Monster and I get 11 exp. Fred joins us and after killing Monster I get 12 exp. Now annoying Mark hops on the bandwagon and I get only 11 exp again. This type of exp tiering is also based on level difference etc, and usually if Bob is 10 levels lower than I then he can't even join my party. This tiering makes partying a plus and keeps people from spam leveling low level characters. This would make being in a group beneficial to not only the lower level person, but the higher as well, making everybody wanna party. I usually don't group because I can get so much more exp so much faster solo. I don't know how a translation to Tempus would work out, but its an idea.

Another example is the way that battle is done when you're in a party. Now in this example I'm gonna pull from my old dusty brain back when I played AD&D. When you were in a group you got bonuses and reductions depending on what party members you had, their classes and the terrain. Basically though what happened is when you were in a party it would make you get attacked less and allow fewer monsters to attack you at any one time, based on the fact that you and yer buddies were in a formation that prevented them from all attacking at once. Along these same lines the position in the party denoted which characters got hit the most often, and even made sure the back row couldn't be hit with standard melee attacks. I know this wouldn't be a walk in the park to add to Tempus. But how many times have you had yer mage in a party with a couple Tank Barbs and one hit and yer gone, even though you're the same level as them. The relatively new defend commands work somewhat along those lines I know, but when they hit you know it. Battle sense would be used by characters in a party, but right now its a random process where everybody is in complete danger and basically fending for themselves instead of part of a group.

The Bard skills that are 'group spells' are in my opinion a great addition and boost to grouping in general. More of this type of skill/spell and the changing of area spells for spellcasters so that they don't hit they're own party members would boost this farther.

Another thought on this is the way the mud keeps changing. I realize that players that have gen 10 characters want more challenge, and because of the speed that some players gain levels the upper Immortals think that the mud needs to get harder to accomodate. But with sweeping changes to zones there is a fatal flaw that occurs. The newbies. So many new players start Tempus and say this game is too hard and quit because with the little equipment that can be found lying around and on the starting mobs they can't fight and level. To get anywhere on Tempus requires help from other players, or somebody who is 10x as stubborn as a mule. There aren't always players on that are in the mood to help a newbie, especially with how often we get burned by newbies who play a day and quit. To get a strong enough playerbase to allow grouping because of the ease of finding other people to group with, the newbie must be addressed. Other solutions to keeping the higher gen players in challenge is to restrict zones more. Have lower level areas that only newbies can get into to get familiar with the game, get good equip, and level without crying tears of frustration. This way the higher gens can't get in and need to pick on other things their own size.

But the question really is why don't I party more? Simple enough. I want to know somebody before I party with them. I need to party with them to get to know them. Hmm. With PK out there (yes I know the PK'ers want more PK and that there isn't enough as it is, blah blah), you can't just go out grouping with any old dood and expect him to not be a multi of a PK'er waiting to stab you in the back while yer being kidney punched by an ogre. Or worse, stun you and steal that +10 Nuclear Sword of Flaming Death that you worked so hard to get.

A few of my thoughts on grouping. If you got this far you get a gold star.

-Wrath of the Long-Winded Old Timers

I agree, i think that a players should be allowed to check the entire kill list of other people(inclusing multis) and they should be allowed to choose the type of targets u can attack(eg. only atk pkiller, attack all, attack everyone except group members, etc…)

How can you possibly realistically back up the feature of being able to see who someones multi's are. It just doesn't make sense. Two players on the same account are in NO WAY related, except that they are on the same account. On one of my chars I might be a big badass pkiller while on the other I am the nice healing cleric. In my opinion, from the role-play aspect of the game, multi's are in no way linked to each other, and should stay that way. If someone knew who every one of my chars were, it would just make it less fun.

I agree with Carne. If you want to know who someone's multis are, you can usually ask someone. It's pretty hard to keep your multis a secret from observant players. If you take the time to do so, then you deserve to have your secrecy.

In response to Wrath, I agree with everything you say, but I again bring up the point, do we really need more grouping? I think there's enough, at least in my clan, and it seems like increasing grouping isn't a huge concern of the people in charge.

I was just bored and decided to throw a few ideas out there about grouping on Tempus. I don't group much and never have. I go faster alone and I have the most fun when I'm going fast. Zoom zoom. When I do group its usually with another bored clannie, or because somebody else stumbled into the zone I was fighting in and invited them to join.

Oh, and with the multi thing I'd have to agree that characters in an account really should be regarded as completely separate entities. They were up until the wizlock, and now pretty much only the account can relate them in any way.

At the same time though what yer really dealing with is the human behind the characters. I've always felt it was cheap how people have 'PK characters' that they use to PK with all cheap and cheesy, then use other characters to play the game with the stolen equip that they got from their cheeztasticness. If you're gonna PK I think all yer multis should be known to the players you PK, so that they can choose to avenge themselves on all the PK'ers characters, instead of just the naked and seldom played PK character.

-Wrath of Shattered Dreams

Yeah, as much as I hate to admit it ;) Wrath is right. It's way chessy to pk with some nearly naked thief or some other class. There used to be seperation of characters, but with the new account system it's a little hard to hide who you are. But I think we are missing the point here, some of the best pkillers never used cheap tricks. Remember Lifeline, and Miscreation? They never hid behind some lowbie char with a bunch of sweet eq, they stood there laughing at those who would challenge them. I vote stop the cheesiness! Oh yeah, and we are quite a bit off topic now :P

ok first of all i dont think ive ever seen anyone pk with a naked char… i personally dont think that even if you strip someone of all their eq that you could kill them naked it just dont work that way…most of the ppl who pk now a days….they are low level/gen chars that are nakked…they are badasses with kickass eq and lots of other yummies…and they dont hide either…i dont think that you should be able to have a list of other chars multis…if they dont want you to know who their multis are they you dont know unless you pay attention…short of reconnecting if you rent then hop on a new char you are still in the same exact spot on the who list…all you have to do is remember where that person was, scroll up a bit if you dont remember and im sure that you will see where they were…then you know at least 2 of that persons chars and you can choose who you want to seek revenge on

OK, so I do agree with Bushido, I'm still pretty new to the post wizlock Tempus :) But getting back on subject… Grouping seems to be the way to go for the bigger mobs. I do feel that more "group oriented" zones could be utilized. This is not to say that someone couldn't solo that zone, just that it should be signifigantly harder to do so. I know that adding in a crapload of new zones wont solve the issue, but it could help it along the way. I think that if we just sit tight, our wonderful administration will provide us with the tools, and areas, for grouping. Go try doing hell all alone, and then try with a bunch of friends, and tell me it was easier, or more fun alone. But for all you speed freaks out there peers at Wrath :) just get beefy. Play alot, learn your class, find out which class compliments it the best for your style of play, and for heavens sake, have fun. Because this is a game, and I think sometimes a few select people forget that. That is all for today, have a good night folks.

To quote you: "Remember Lifeline, and Miscreation?"

I just HAVE to throw this out there, since you chose to use that as an arguement for people who didn't hide behind little chars that didn't mean anything. Two words: Remember Kraz?

The gen 1 level 49 mage multi of Miscreation, who killed all the noobs as soon as they remorted to gen 1 and took the few pieces of eq they had in order to build a nice set for himself. What a big badass PKiller! I wish I could pkill gen 1's.

A bit off topic, but I had to throw that out there against your argument. :D

I don't think naked PKing is all that much of a problem. If you can kill someone naked, then more power too you. Unless you're gen 8 naked killing a gen 1 or recently remorted character. That's a different issue though.

What I do see as a problem, however, is naked PStealing. A gen 1 thief can stun pretty much anything out there with great success, just needing a couple of potions or a monocle and captive bead earring. Once stunned, the thief can then easily remove the two best pieces of eq the victim owns and recall out of there.

Since eq doesn't affect either stun or steal, the thief can do this risk free. And like I said before, there is NO reason a gen 1 thief should be able to stun/steal a gen 10 with that much success, especially since there are no saves (well, not really since dex caps at 25). I think in conjunction with backstab, stun is fine. Maybe instead, steal's success rate should be drastically dropped against players (unless trusted so stealing !remove stuff in arena would still work). This prevents little low gen thieves cough Carne cough from stealing from big people who should be strong enough to resist it.

ok your point makes no sense

you said that you should have to trust ppl to steal from you????they are STEALING from you not borrowing…so therefor why should you have to be trusted to steal from someone…fact is if you get stun/stole from by a gen 1 or a mort you need to protect yourself better…and i would be saying the same thing about myself if it were me saying that

How do you protect yourself against PSteal, Bushido? I'm not saying stealing won't work unless you're trusted, I just think it should be reduced. Other than running around with poison ALL the time, there isn't really a way to defend against stun. The fact that this can be done naked with no penalty makes it very unbalanced.

how do you protect yourself against pkill? next your gonna say you need to be trusted to be pk'd by someone…Hey Rahvin, can you trust me so i can pk you?…moot…thats all i got to say

ok…it is ludacris to say that…how do you protect yourself against psteal you ask…well type who (time, zone), know who is suspect to try to kill/steal from you…if someone who i think is gonna possibly do something to me im on who all the time to make sure that im gonna be safe…when percival gets on and im in cpk i think that every command i hit has who zone or who time after it…your never to cautious…thats the only way i can think possible to protect yourself…not having to be trusted by the person your stealing from…that makes absolutely no sense what so ever

Why doesn't it make sense? I don't think you should have to trust to be stolen from. I never said that you had to. I think if you're trusting someone, it works 100% of the time. If not, it's a lot harder.

Also, there's a way to protect against PK. With my eq, class, and everything, I think it'd be pretty difficult to do. I'm a gen 10 knight with lots of redux. I think someone would be hard pressed to kill me without a LOT of preparation and some luck, or by being very skilled at pk. If I get killed, then that's my fault, I can accept that.

PStealing is just incredibly cheap as it is now. If someone gets a gen 10 thief, then yes, they should be able to stun/steal from pretty much anyone. Thief takes skill to gen up, and that's one of the main reasons to have a thief. Why though, should a gen 1 thief be able to stun me and steal my best piece of eq? And naked too. I'm gen 10, should I be able to defend better against that? If I see someone I know is a high gen thief, then yes, I'll be careful. You don't get to gen 6-7 without people knowing who you are. But I've had a mort spammed to negs by Rahvin in 2 hours. Someone that low gen should not be able to touch a gen 10. PK is balanced in that way I believe. No matter how lucky they are, I don't think any gen 1 can kill me.

And Bushido, I who zone all the time in cpk. I'm not complaining because I think I've been stolen from unfairly. The one time I ever was, it happened while I was afk. If you argue that, having an overpowered move is okay because people should be who zoning all the time, why don't we make behead do 4000 damage because if I PK you, it's your fault for not being more attentive.

As someone who has been a fairly active pkiller and pstealer in the distant past, and might one day desire to return to the ways of my shady past blink, I will say that perhaps having a high level mort or low gen thief who can stun/steal from a higher gen player could seem "cheesy" indeed. Allow me to propose something that might appeal to people on both sides of this issue.

Perhaps if the "normal" eq items that are in the game that are now !remove were changed to not be !remove but merely cursed or whatever, there could be a quest item made available for say 10 QP's (just a random number I threw out)that truly would make that item be !remove so that a thief at ANY gen would be unable to steal it from that player? The player could remove the item as they saw fit (to remort or repair it) etc, but no other player could, even in the event of a pk. (effectively making that item !ploot) This would afford the higher gen players who have accumulated not only EQ that they cannot replace, but also who have accumulated the required QP's the opportunity to put this protection on a few select items or all of their items if they can afford this from a QP stand point (good luck with that btw).

Thoughts etc?

alright, aside from this being way-extremely redundantly off-topic… reading the borads gives me a sense of wanting to rip all of my hair out and stab an ice-pick into my face untill i bleed out..

Before using the icepick, grab a bandaid!!!

Just some free healthcare advice :)

orly? i'm trying to kill myself and end my life by ramming the ice pick into my head.. why would i want a band-aid? srsly…

Ahh, I totally missed the last word. Bleed out. I mustve stopped reading at bleed. My bad Icepick at will my good man! hehe

This post was originaly about groups. One factor can effect so many differant things in tempus. When it comes to pk/psteal I could sit here and name plenty of times a low gen thief or naked thief has stunned someone and stripped them down. I also know someone who has a gen 10 monk who could of very well pkilled with his monk instead of pstealing with his low gen thief. It happens more often then you think. It is not always a huge badass player pkilling everyone. The reason for this is you cannot loot more then a few items off a corpse before someone retreives it. I personally do not think I should use names, I dont think anyone should. We all know that there are certain people who seem to just want to take the fun out of tempus and use cheesy ways to get around the policys of tempus to upset others. As of now I think tempus is a very fun game and policy is nearly perfect however I do agree that newbies have it very hard. I would like to see more +mort eq for newbies with good effects to help them out. Most of the immortal staff works very hard, they don't get paid to be here and could leave. Most of them have very good experance with coding and building and I think they deserve more respect and posative feedback. Then of course there are some negatives that should be addressed because if they are not the player base will keep dissapating. With any descion we need to think it through and see how it would effect every aspect of tempus.

Hmm.. pk/psteal? used a lower character to make it more even/challenging? cheesy way of violating policy? newbies have it hard? upset others? people trying to take the fun out of tempus? pking newbies who just remorted? steal should be turned into a worthless skill? why should a low gen/mort have any shot against a high gen? no gen 1 should be able to kill you? having to type who-zone/who time every 2 seconds? running around poisoned all the time? remember lifeline/miscreation? (those worthless cheesy loosers :D {remember mordecai/broken? l0lz}) chessy? cheap?

stabs self in face with ice-pick much to the shagrin of darke

did i miss something? …

…. wOW

newbie used to be sub level 7, now it's sub gen 1000000bajillion if you can't handle a lowbie comin after ya, you're not doin it right (like if you're driving a porche and getting out-handled by someone in a mazda 323)

sings, 'i've got 99 problems but a thief ain't one, if you're having trouble staying eq'ed i feel bad for ya son'

ps. (just tryin and stay on topic) if you're in a responsible group (no-one gets left behind/everyone pulls their fair share), you shouldn't have to think too much about it :p (assuming it's as bad as you think)

Caden is awesome, did I mention he is the man? haha I love the song!

don't spread lies :/ my views are out-dated and represent a vision of the past, the new world order got inducted a while ago, try killing with kindness instead, smother your agressors with flowers, plush bunny rabbits and soft rainbows, it would work better

We shall rise again m/