Would True See by definition negate the effects of mirror image?

True Seeing Class/Level: Cleric 42, Mage - 41 Some magic users possess the ability to magically stimulate the eyes to make them see things the way they are. When cast upon a person, that person gains the ability to see all things invisible, secret doors, and auras of magic. They are also immune to those spells that affect the senses such as blur or displacement. This spell can only be cast upon yourself.

Mirror Image Melody Class: Bard Level: 46 Bards can play this song and form images of themselves out of sound. The duplicate images surround the Bard and give an attacker a confusing target. This song requires a wind instrument.

What do you think?

Your a genius Brywing! That is a very good point. True see should increase your chances of hitting a bard through mirror image nearly 100%. Of course bards will not agree to this, but I know it makes perfect sense.

Why should something obtainable from wearing an object render a high gen spell useless? If it doesn't already increase the chance to hit through mirror image then I think it should, but definitely not 100% or even near it. That's just ridiculous.

Because mirror image is too good.

Take both the ideas together and you have the proper solution.

No more eq giving true see (among other effects that should be handed back to the classes) and true see should actually be true see again, that or rename it to something else like enhanced perception and change the help fiel since it's been so nerfed such as not seeing transparency.

[grumble] I can't mentally digest the notion that you can enhance a retina to see something that is transparent. Transparency by definition means no light is reflection but passed through, if there is no light reflected there is nothing for the retina to pick up i don't care how tweaked it is.

Yet a magical property such as true see which would have consideration to the rules of the physical doesn't work. Somebody explain that one to me, or atleast try to so I can be entertained by the musings. [/grumble]

Alright, Mr. Wizard, answer me this question! Why would "true seeing," a spell that affects your vision and your eyes have any sort of impact on a spell that allows the bard to "form images of themselves out of SOUND." (emphasis added) Maybe there should be a spell called "true hearing," that negates mirror image.

[Wait a minute, now that I think about it, why are images being created out of sound? Is this some sort of wave-particle-duality/theoretical physics that I missed while getting a D- in my "The Physical Nature of Light and Sound" class at JMU? (p.s., there really is a class by that name that I took and got a D- in. Stupid 8:00 a.m. science class in the planetarium…)]

You're a mage, right, Narc? What's up with prismatic sphere? That's just a bunch of colored lights (like a disco!), right? Why does that even hurt me!? Why can't I strap mirrors to my arms and legs to reflect all of that pesky light away so that I can groinkick you repeatedly? And what's with lightning bolt? Conjuring electrical energy out of thin air!?! That's freakin impossible in real life!

continues to bludgeon his point to death

I mean, yeah, retina countering transparency might not make perfect scientific sense, but neither does making calculations to acidify your opponents, blasting your enemies with a torrent of energy, or slaying dragons.

I should add that my last post is directed to Narc's complaint about retina detecting transparency. I don't have much experience with bards or mirror image, so I can't really make an educated opinion on that.

Storm is right! Plus the only marks I get in real life from Taint are on my chin…not on my forehead.

My point was that mirror image is still an image made out of sound using magic. They are made of magically directed sound, probably giving out an aura? Therefore a trained viewer with such a spell could tell or at least have a better chance at guessing they are not real when true see can see magic auras on items?

In no way am I saying that this should give a +100% chance to hit. That was not my suggestion.

And Storm, the derision was completely unnecessary no matter where it was directed, your main point was NOT directed at anything narc talked about. Granted that the latter half of Narc's post doesn't contribute, but that does not make the thread valueless.

C'mon… Storm's post was funny. :)

Mad props to you!

Bottom Porch!

Alright. I should back up the bus.

Yes, my post was sarcastic. Given the nature of the two posts he made today, I figured sarcasm was an acceptable response.

The intent of my post was to suggest that Tempus might not be the best place to be concerned with scientific realism.

Given that Narcissus and I are currently roommates, I probably should have just waited to tell him in person, instead of doing it on the boards.

My bad.

Narcissus is a reck-loose, I didn't detect any sarcasim what-so-ever, only in your more recent post Storm.. meaning your first post was more than serious.. Narcissus is the derisive one!

Let us all unite in reality checking Narc.. Watch your back…

BP!

Yeah! All Narc's fault! He's a dick! BP REPRESENT!

Ya'll are nothing but a bunch of forum posting Newbs! evrybdy knows that the [grumble] [/grumble] tags mean that I'm allowed to post anything useless inbetween and it's acceptable because they are the tags of "It is okay that I'm off topic now"

Seriously though. All that other stuff is magic, it doesn't have to make sense, that's why it's magic. M-a-g-i-c Look it up.

Retina is not magic, so it sucks and should be bound by the rules of what makes sense to me, naturally.

I'm going to go derive a beverage now.

Hmm…well…here's the original intention behind bards.

In D&D, bard is in fact a magical class, so your original conjecture is valid.

In Tempus though, we tried to steer bard away from magic. Granted, bards can do some things with sound that are out of the ordinary, similar to a phyz doing…well…anything a phyz does with calculations.

The theory behind mirror image (no I'm not making this up on the spot…we talked about the theory behind every song before we put it in) is that the bard sets the air around him vibrating in such a way that his opponents brain is tricked into seeing multiple images of him.

That's why it's not affected by true seeing. The multiple images actually have nothing to do with your eyes. They have everything to do with how your brain is processing that information.

N

How about true hearing?

Alright Narc, let's take a look at this:

"Seriously though. All that other stuff is magic, it doesn't have to make sense, that's why it's magic. M-a-g-i-c Look it up.

Retina is not magic, so it sucks and should be bound by the rules of what makes sense to me, naturally."

You're right, retina is not magic, it's psionics. (P-s-i-o-n-i-c-s Look it up.) We have about as many real life examples of psionics as we do magic. And if getting my PhD in theoretical physics will give me the ability to "close my eyes and make a calculation" that turns me transparent, sign me up!

Again, my point: As far as Tempus is concerned, neither magic, psionics, nor physics make sense.

I'll also add that, at least to me, in real life, physics doesn't make any sense.

Storm, Sportin' a D- in Physics 101

Alright Storm, Bird B-i-r-d. It's my middle finger, look it's up. (Oooooh bird ftw!) And yes we all know it's all so technologically ahead of your conceptual capacity that it's all magic to you :-D

Haha Actually since we've digressed this far and the whole mirror image vs. true see thing has been laid to rest meaning this thread is now open for unhindered useless banter, telekenesis really doesn't belong to mages and should be a psionic ability. Mages solve the problem by summoning little floating thingies to put stuff on.

I'll find some other stuff that doesn't matter because everything's getting shuffled about anyway to rant on later when I'm less busy and more bored at work.