I'm sure you all love the idea of more monk skills, but I figure I'd throw this one to the dogs.

Call it whatever you want, I haven't thought of a name for it.

Gen 6 or 7

A monk could use his agility to combine Combo and Whirlwind. Have a quite lengthy combo which distributed the attacks to multiple mobs. The only thing holding Monks back from being a really badass tank is their inability to attack multiple mobs at a time.

The attack would do multiple times the amount of damage as a normal combo, but spread across multiple mobs.

We could call it Whirl-bo.

Although I'd rather just switch to another char that can tank and hit several mobs simultaneously, I wouldn't mind having more skills on my monk. As to monks without the skill in question, I find killing mobs one by one is their specialty and they're so good at it that they don't really need to branch out further. Besides, whirlwind is already suppose to do that (just doesn't seem to work very well.)

I would much rather see a more practical use for zen of translocation or a skill that isn't repelled by pris sphere. For example:

Skill - Spirit Blast Mana cost: 100 Ignores pris sphere and other spells of that sort. Damage is based on target's void in mana pool. Damage = Maxmana - current mana. So if the target has 1000 maxmana and 550 current mana, then damage will be 450.

Max mana - current mana = damage

so if you have 3000 mana and 500 current mana you would do 2500 damage? I think that would be very overpowered =D

Don't think monks needs anything lol. Them seem very well balanced.

Spirit Blast seems really powerful as written. I agree though, i would really like to see the Zen of Translocation replaced for monks. As it stands, if i can translocate through a door i can bash it too and if i cant bash it i cant trans through it. Dont get me started on the using it to move either….takes 400 mana to translocate 10 rooms in any direction, kind of a waste if you ask me. Now you might argue that would help get across canyons or places you need to fly, but we have the zen of motion which gives flight.

Also, is it just me or does anyone else only achieve the zen of healing when they have full HPS? Also, in many of the tougher zones I visit at higher zens, I'd never sit and meditate for long enough for it to help since I'd get jumped by the mobs as i meditate.

I feel your pain against multiple mobs but i just dont think monks should ever be the multi-mob fighter. They're one on one specialists. But i would like to see something to help them get around zones with tons of mobs. From what i understand, evasion works until you enter another command, to me this seems kind of uselsss. If you move from one room to the next, you have stopped evading….not very good for mobile, dexterous fighters. I've always thought monks should have some skill in fending off attacks. In my areas command it tells me several levels of hell are right for Dolza….i get waxed ever time i try Hell I because i get swamped by the devils.

Maybe something like Diverting Defense. Like in the movies when you see monks throwing out arms, legs, elbows, and what not to block or shunt off the attacks from lots of enemnies. It would use movement to fuel the skill and shunt attakcs away from you lessening the damage. You'd still take a little damage from blocking or pushing away the attack but not as much as if you took it full on. You wouldn't be able to use it for long periods of time since it would drain your move points at a rapid rate. I see this being good for fights like taking on King Learander and his guard knights. It would help you focus on the king while brushing away the attacks of the lesser enemies.

Whirlwind kick is greatness! You just have to make sure you're attacking everyone in the room first. If you are it spits out lots of attacks and seems to do decent damage. I can see it being more useful if it automatically attacked everyone in the room except those in your group.

Overall, i agree with Eternal, monks don't have to have anything to be fun. However, it would be nice to have some of the usless skills revamped or changed or maybe just a little love thrown their way. I mean, come on, two remort skills and one of them is very limited in use.

Two words. "Yoga Fire." Discuss.

Wouldn't that step on the Mages toes? Dont they have a fire breathing remort skill or some such?

Is it in the form of a beautiful ball rolled off the lips of the world's most famous monk, Dhalsim?

NO. :p

Dhalsim was a yoga master, not really a monk. And i sure dont want to go the stretchy arms and legs route with monks!

How about making monks use mana more? Change up meditation and zens a bit:

meditation - while meditating, instead of waiting for the zen to come to you, you must type 'obtain zen of whatever' and it uses some mana and incurs some waitstate. Any other command would break the meditation.

zen of motion - greatly reduces move point (probably 0 MV) use when traveling but consumes 1-5 mana per room traveled.

zen of translocation - dodges any attack up to 3 times (at gen 10, less dodges at lower gens) but consumes a large amount of mana per dodge, 150-200 mana per dodge.

zen of oblivion - does the same thing when active, just costs around 50 mana to obtain

zen of celerity - does the same thing when active, just costs around 50 mana to obtain

zen of healing - costs 10-20 mana and incurs a large waitstate. 8-10 seconds. each time the monk obtains this it actually heals for 200-250 instead of the passively regeneration per tick

zen of awareness - same as when active, just costs 50 mana to obtain

zen of dispassion - always reduces alignment to 0 when obtained but cost of mana is equal to the amount of alignment change. for example, if you're at -151 alignment and you obtain this zen, then the mana cost is 151.

i guess this change could be so monks would be a little more aware of their mana and shun most people away from being monk/borg all the time.

maybe kata should be changed too. kata - having kata no longer increases damroll and hitroll but uses mana with the monk's skills to increase damage. each hit from a skill costs 20 mana and increases damage by 10-80. (i believe that's a 10D8 roll). for example, a can monk use palm strike and it'll cost 20 mana and increases damage of palm strike by 10-80. or a monk can use combo (let's say it hits six times) then it'll cost 120 mana and increases damage by 60-480.

have fun picking at it

That's a lot of changes. I get plenty of use from my mana with my second, psion. I don't know how much coding all that would take. I think it would be a bit simpler to add a new skill to the existing class vs. changing up the way one of the primary abilities, zens, work.

In reference to my Diverting Defense post earlier:

What if the monk was precluded from using a shield while under the effect of Diverting Defense? To me this balances out a potentially powerful skill and it's like going without a wield. in the same way that you lose the affect from a weapon but Kata makes up for it in hit and damroll. Without the use of a shield you'd be giving up not only the armor bonus but potentiall things like mana_tap, damroll, stat bonuses, fire shield, etc.

Using a shield with 'diverting defense' wouldn't make it more powerful, that is…if you're talking about blocking attacks not reducing damage.

When it comes to a lot of changes, it's not like they all have to be implemented at the same time. Although, it is essentially one big change to meditation. Besides that, the idea was so that monks can use mana…not the psionic (not everyone is monk/psi). Even though it doesn't quite fit the idea of zens wafting on by and just happens to latch onto the monk when he or she is in the spirit world, this way the monk can more actively choose which zen he needs over ones he doesn't.

Personally, I think the change would subtract from monks in the sense of raw power but add to them in the sense of options and perhaps fun. I don't think anyone has said it on realms before (at least not in this thread) but monks are too easy to level.

True, not everyone is psion. Then again, not all monks are borg like you suggest either.

As for making them use more mana, why? Monks are a fighting class and they dont get a lot of mana to begin with, so why try to make them into somthing they're not? It's like giving mages a few combat skills so they can punch or kick a little more in combat.

Also, when i meditate, i usually want all the zens with the exception of translocation. Why wouldn't you want to have true_see, flight, damage reduction, movement reduction, and healing?

I would like it if the zen of healing was changed to make it more usefull. It can be dangerous to wait for a tick after you get the zen. It does give you back a lot of hitpoints, mana, and movement. It's just not always the best option to wait for that tick.

Your comparison doesn't match. It's using more mana to fight, not cast spells.

Whenever oblivity and celerity run out (usually at the same time) and I'm in a pickle I almost always want celerity over oblivity. But, I suppose that the suggestion asks for too much use of mana.

You're right. my analogy is flawed. By i stand by the point of monks not being a "magic using" class. Therefore they dont need additional demands on their mana.

If anything, i could see them expending more move points on things like combo or whirlwind kick to do more damage. Not sure how this could be coded but maybe a zen you get around gen 6 or 7 that increaces the damage you can do with your special attacks, similar to what you suggested earlier.

Actually, I see monks as both spiritual (mana) and physical fighters. Maybe if the mana costs were cut in half then you'd appreciate the idea too.

I too see them as spiritual fighters. However, on tempus, Spiritual, to me, doesn't refer to mana but their ability to meditate and get their abilities through force of will.

If Spiritual equates to mana then Rangers and Knights would be more spiritual fighters than monks. I agree, it might be more palatable if the mana costs were reduced in your example. As it stands, i'd use all of my mana getting the zens the way you have it written, more if my alignment was too far off from 0. It's not that i dont like your ideas, esp the one about the zen of translocation. I just think it would be easier to add something new vs. changing the way the class functions on a basic level.

Anyway, this is all a moot point since it appears it's just the two of us looking this and debating it. Your point about monks being easy to level is fairly true, at the low and mid gens.

I just wish they'd get a little more love for the higer gens. Dolza can pretty much do the same zones at gen 7 that he was doing at gen 4 or 5. The increase in speed over the gens is great but a lack of defense or more hitpoints makes is really difficult to explore and work on harder zones.

The areas command lists levels 4-7 of hell and heaven 1 and 2 as great places for me to go. Both areas are, for the most part, beyond my capabilities. Either because i get swamped with devils or jumped by a couple of archons. Not to mention the whole alignment changes on those planes. It feels like monks stagnate after gen 5 or so.

"I just think it would be easier to add something new vs. changing the way the class functions on a basic level."

The changes just add mana, yet they pretty much do the same thing. So this would not change the way monks work. If I wanted to suggest that we change monks on the basic level then I'd say change zen of celerity, hip toss, omega pinch and any simple damage skill like palm strike. Because any good monk knows that those skills are the monk's M.O..

By the way, Diverting Defense will not help you run Hell anymore than their skill set already does and don't treat the areas command like the bible…

Well, at least two of the zens do something differernt, the zen of translocation and dispassion.

And i think it would change things. it would remove some of the fear you experience when meditating in dangerous zones since you would just be able to type the zen you want and get it. Also, it uses a ton of mana which leaves me mana poor for actual fighting.

As for diverting defense not helping in hell, sure it would. I have no intention of taking on the legions of devils any more than i do the hordes of archons. In my post i mentioned it helping in boss rooms like King Learander or any of the rooms with a 'boss' mob and lesser guards. This could be in the Drachs, Hell, Heaven, or Wemic that kind of thing.

I dont use the areas command as a bible, however, it should be a little more reflective of what a character's capabalities are.

Even if your mana is depleted and you have none for fighting, you still got monk skills. Thus, changing zens such as that will not change monks on the basic level. (And you're part psi right? You've got psidrain.)

Sure, Diverting Defense(DD) would help you in Hell…a teeny tiny bit. But what I wrote earlier was that it wouldn't help you anymore than their current skill set does. There aren't many monks that can run Hell at all, there are many other classes that can't run Hell even at gen 10. Which would tie this into me questioning how you play your monk. If you just barge into King Learander's room and try to kill him while letting his lackeys beat on you then you gotta change your strategy.

My monk doesn't run Hell very well, her skills just can't put her up to it. But, she can run Heaven really well, as long as I don't charge in every room swinging.

As a monk, I wouldn't mind having more defense from DD, even though I don't really need it. My argument against DD is that it doesn't fit a monk's style of fighting. But I can judge it too fast because you didn't write down any specifics. Would you mind going into more details on how DD works?