Grab a cold one and a snack. Here are some thoughts on changing knights and clerics.

Good Knights:

Give knights the barbarian skill 'strike'. Remove the ability to train 'behead' for good knights. Remove the ability to train 'lunge punch' for good knights. Add new skill 'shield bash/smite' for good knights. Add new remort spell 'Penitence'. Remove soulless characters' immunity toward sanctification and holy symbol based attacks and add a resistance factor based on gen.

Shield Bash/Smite Level 35, gen 0 skill Damages and knocks target to the ground. Requires use of a shield. Damage: minimal - decent (depends on gen, level, skill level, damroll, strength) Waitstates: user's waitstate depends on gen, level, and speed. target's waitstate depends on speed and user's shield (weight and AC-apply)

In a nut shell, higher ac-apply and heavy shields cause enemies to stay on the floor longer. As for the time of the knockdown, I am stumped. What do you guys think?

Penitence Level 40, gen 5-? (depends on how good you think it is) Causes victims to feel so much remorse for their sins, it becomes painful! Only works on neutral and evil aligned characters. Casting this upon a target will inflict damage to his or her mana. On top of that, the spell has an affect with a chance to land depending on sav_spell, gen, level, etc.

Affect on evil and neutral aligned: victim cannot perform a power move while affect is active. Affect doesn't last too long, 20-30 seconds tops. Affect on evil aligned only: victim's attack speed is greatly reduced. Here's a list of power moves that apply:

wrench behead cleave tornado kick combo death touch ridgehand backstab psiblast scream disruption symbol of pain prismatic spray

Good Clerics:

Benediction Level 40-45, gen 2 Bless an ally with Guiharia's protection. Effective only on neutral and good aligned characters. All fatal attacks are reduced by half. Let me give some numbers to explain what this means.

Victim has 600 remaining HP. Victim without benediction receives a backstab, dealing exactly 1000 damage. Victim dies.

Replay the scene

Victim has 600 remaining HP. Victim with benediction receives a backstab, dealing exactly 1000 damage. Damage will result in victim's death so damage is reduced by half. Victim receives exactly 500 damage and is left with 100 HP.

Replay the scene with different values

Victim has 500 remaining HP. Victim with benediction receives a backstab, dealing exactly 1000 damage. Damage will result in victim's death so damage is reduced by half. Victim receives exactly 500 damage and still dies.

Evil Knights:

Reduce waitstate slightly on 'behead' Increase chance to land the spell 'taint' Give knights the barbarian skill 'strike'

What do you guys think? Concept needs to be scrapped all together or do just the numbers need reworking?

I do like the penitence spell. Sound like something that could be very interesting. But I do have one thought regarding the divine characters with soulless. Since they lost their humanity in a way, how would they lose their immunity to the spell?

Shield Bash/Smite is pretty good skill and it really does make knights more well…knightly. But, how bout this, you can make the kind of like critical hit for ranger. And apply the bonuses as you mentioned.

just a thought

The idea of soulless granting complete immunity, especially for a remort spell, seems ridiculous to me. Besides, others have noticed this and posted about it. I've yet to hear a good explanation as to why it should be this way. Just consider it, would the resistance be a better replacement?

"Shield Bash/Smite is pretty good skill and it really does make knights more well…knightly. But, how bout this, you can make the kind of like critical hit for ranger. And apply the bonuses as you mentioned."

I don't understand what you mean.

I have to say I like some of the ideas but I'm not sure if some of the skills/spells should be totally scrapped. I do not agree with good knights using a shield to bash a target down and a evil knight not doing so as well. Also, if this is something that would happen I also think evil aling. should gain full benefit from soulless and not be able to sleep. Currently this is something that is broken. You still can be put to sleep, you just jolt awake from time to time.

"I do not agree with good knights using a shield to bash a target down and a evil knight not doing so as well."

Why? And, can you rephrase what you said about evil knights there?

I think those who are soulless should still be able to be put to sleep, but the waking up and immediately falling back to sleep part should be changed. Being soulless should grant some resistance against sleeping, the way it currently is now doesn't resist against sleeping in anyway possible. That being said, why even have the "you bolt right back up!" message?

I've never played a Cleric, but I do like Deneb's ideas about Knights.

In my humble opinion–

Paladin vs. Anti-Paladin:

I'd assume that they spend their lives defending their brethren and hunting the opposing faction down. In honesty, I think the way things are set up now are somewhat even.

The imbalance in my opinion is in gear options. When I had a knight, long ago, I had to gear him like a neutral ranger. There was no Heaven. Oddy closed. Rose-star disc anyone? It sucked, but it worked. You can reach decent hit/dam and ac at gen 10, but in the back of my mind, I was still geared like a ranger.

I think that once Heaven is expanded, or perhaps even Elysium, and once paladin-type gear is more abundant, the class will be perceived as less imbalanced.

Perceived Imbalance:

PVE (player vs. enemy): Good align knights cannot complain. At gen 10, shield mastery is wicked. Our heals are huge and sanctification is a boon in the tougher, evil-type zones. Unless you're playing with no hands, smashing your head into your keyboard, I don't see why you cannot enjoy gen 10 Paladin.

I think a lot of perceived imbalance comes from PVP (player vs. player). I remember going toe-to-toe for shiggles with a certain Anti-Paladin in particular. He won every bout. I'd get close, but he'd win.

The solution: Strategy! He was geared to diffuse any of my secondary attacks/spells, while I was not geared to defend his. I think we look at everything too materialistically on Tempus. It's very much a hitroll/damroll culture. One word– Flexsis. Have you seen the dude? He knows his class to the bone.

Maybe paladins are meant to be AC/save tanks. I know for sure that if I had thought about my gear and the strategies to take out that anti-paladin, the fights would have been much smoother.

Skills (Base and Remort):

Shield Bash Ideas: I agree with every post prior to this one about shield bash. It's intuitive and makes more sense than lunge punching IMO.

Aura-DiabloII-esque Ideas: I think it steps on the toes of the bard. However, it would be neat to bring back an advanced 'Group Armor' and even a 'Group Prayer.'

Ideas to the table to be considered wholly, partially or not at all: (sorry if im stepping on any toes)

Remort– Holy Shield: Paladins can call upon Alron to absorb an oncoming attack into pure mana, or even deflect the attack back upon the attacker. This would work only once, and would have to be casted outside of combat. Anti-paladins could have a counter spell to destroy this shield (i.e. psychic shield and shatter.)

Remort– Imbue Armor: 'Repulsion field' for paladins. Hell, if you're meant to protect and defend, then perhaps they need more than just 'armor.'

Remort– Divine Intervention change: Instead of the way it is, perhaps make it more like Mana Shield. The sacrifice is that if they get pwned, say goodbye to your heals. This would encourage more usage of other party member skills. A Psion could be psidraining and conduiting into the tank, while a Cleric could spot heal, for example.

Lastly, Remort–Holy Sigil: Draw a rune on the floor that seals demonic spells within the room. Adding a sigil to a weapon could evoke silence upon an evil target (of course via sav_spell restrictons.)

Shoot– maybe make Runecrafter/Runeologist/Runemaker into its own class…

Anyways, thanks for reading. Hope this enlightens/inspires.

nd

If I gave my knight my monk's equipment, I imagine he would still suck. Because:

First, knights are boring to play. Yes, I've played both alignments. Second, knights are so rounded. This "jack of all trades" business (more like 8 or 9 of all trades) means that they do not excel in any aspect. Even with all the damroll I'd be giving my knight with my monk's eq I wouldn't be able to utilize it very well. Behead is super slow and the next best skill is lunge punch.

Now, I agree that evil knights have an EQ advantage over good knights, but it's not really such a big deal. Knights in general suck.

Behead may be slow but its pretty powerful and its slowness doesn't seem as bad when the attackee can't cast any spells because they are Tainted and are getting pummeled by 4 horned demons that I summoned. In summary, evil knights are the best class on Tempus.

Behead may be pretty damn powerful (given you're wielding a two-handed slasher), but it's still slow anyway you look at it. This factor alone make the skill mediocre. Taint is mainly used against spellcaster, in which case, rarely land due to the spellcaster's probability to have a decent to high amount sav_spells. Summon legion is good though. That is, if you have the time to summon them.

Evil knights being the best class? Ha! Maybe if all of your equipment consists of oedits and quest eq. Then again, Lysolchip has something similar to that…I wouldn't even call him second best now.

I agree. Knights do blow. Please fix us. Unless you want the entire mud to be monks, mages and clerics. bump post flame on