…annoys me a lot. Mainly because I usually have to fight against it but it still feels way too powerful. It's essentially a spellup that makes the bard immune to a large variety of moves for quite a few times. There are two other things that irk me. One is that image behind it (no pun intended) is that the bard is creating images out of sound…what the hell? The other thing, which bothers me the most, is the fact that it's used by a bard but only works for the bard alone.

I just thought it'd be nice to have a change in this so everyone can be happy. At least, I think everyone would be happy. So how about it be changed so that:

1. Mirror Image works on all group members.

2. Mirror Image applies to ALL damage attacks and status affections as well (attacks from regular rounds, behead, stun, drowsy, teleport, etc.)

3. Maximum number of 3 images per character. Not the ridiculous number it's at right now.

4. Reduce the duration to 5 minutes. Not stackable.

5. Increase minimum mana cost to 150. Right now, 50 is the minimum.

It's a give and take. Bards get to stop disabling affects, they can no longer stop so many powerful attacks and just recast it without much concern for their mana. And mostly, they can support their groups better, not just stand in the front lines for everyone else.

I agree with the fact that Mirror Image is a ridiculously powerful spell. Not having play my bard in a long time, I didn't realize that it is stackable, but that makes it even better! I guess it's like prismatic sphere against monk.

Nah, I don't think it's stackable right now. I just put that in on #4 just so to let you guys know that I don't think it should be stackable if it were to change.

cough

Last time I checked, dispel magic knocked off mirror image.

So, your problem with mirror image is that you have to cast dispel magic first before winding up the crank machine?

Not enough half-eaten scrolls for your non-magik chars? Really?

Is it more about the non-magiks that cannot dispel the bards? Is it unfair, and people shouldn't have to be a magik class to have an easy time killing bards?

Mirror image seems fine to me, 7 images at 10th. @10th -> You are being accompanied by 7 mirror images. What if prismatic sphere said, @10th -> You are being accompanied by 7 prismatic spheres.

You have to wait for a tic to re-sing if you lose your last mirror image, you cannot simply 're-cast' it, regardless of mana. So, since bards are forced to wait a whole tic till they can re-sing it again, it makes me question what in gods name are you talking about "reguardless of mana".. usually folks get mana back on a tic. If you could actually re-sing it mid-tic I might remotely follow your line of thinking.

It lasts for 7 moves. Run hell, you'll notice you're running around with mirror image off a lot. It isn't stackable, it only last a short whle (effectively), and I'm not sure how this changes the fun for anyone.

Did I mention you can dispel mirror image?

So instead of the standard issue 7mirrors @10th, it should be capped at 3? so gen 1-2-3=1 mirror, gens 4-7=2 mirrors, gens 8-10=3 mirrors? So a couple of pit fiends go for a couple of bash move and I'm assed out of mirror images until the next tic that I'm out of battle. So mirror image becomes not enough to handle one fight. If it lasted unlimited times and wore off on tics, again, I could understand the 'overpowered prismatic sphere' calls. It doesn't last til the end of the tic, it just ends, and you can only re-sing after the next tic.

I'm not sure the point of tweaking mirror image. Other than you've become crusty in your old age(:P)and it won't be long now before you begin to scream at the kids on your front lawn, hopefully they won't be loaded up on save_breath too, it might not even matter.. because you'll find out that your house is suddenly, !bard. :o

You are being accompanied by 0 mirror image.

later that hour..

Your mirror images waver and disappear.

Also, I was screwing around with Cast in the arena on a hunch I had about mirror image, yeah… crusty postings :P

There is more than one way to break a bards mirrors.

But, I don't wanna take the fun outta figuring it out, I don't want to tell you how to play against a bard and how unfucking believably easy it is to counter mirrors.

I will assure you though that mirror image isn't throwing the games balance off.

-Have a nice day.

I know you don't want to tell us how is it that it's so unfucking believable it is to counter mirror image. But then how will anything that you said have any credibility? Honestly, I all I know is dispel magic and using low waitstate moves to burn them away.

Anyway, I didn't know that you still had the mirror image affect even after they're all used up. Well, that changes my view on the subject a lot. It just seemed like bards always had it on. Despite however many times I've hit them with a discharge 1 or whatever, it would still be there. It doesn't seem so easy to counter it to me…as there are many ways to prevent their counters.

However, I still think it could be better. Think about the suggestion. Don't just dismiss it. Tweak some numbers to make it work. Like I've said before, it's a give and take.

I'm still going to stick with the things I just suggested except add on that if the images wear off then the affect wear off too.

I think my suggestions could really make bards help their party out a lot better.

I did think about it, clearly. :P

I liked the idea of having groupies maybe get a mirror or two, it would help out the nightmare of trying to handle some of the less forgiving areas.

I'm not sure if the original intent of not having it wear off was a balance thing or not. It probably seems like it's always up if you're talking about PK or quest stuff. For mobs, they usually burn through the mirrors at a decent clip, so if it's adjusting it for PK or quest usefulness, it's butchering it for the mob usefulness. It wear off after about a half hour, unless it gets forced to drop.. then it's whenever the next tic is. Either way you can't stay in battle if you want to re-up.

Credibility, I donno, there's a post on here where Elric was on the business end of Mercury's physics experiments during 'clan-wars' quest, and was calling for something to get changed based on a misperception of what was going on. (http://realm.tempusmud.com/forum/4/110/1083702281) Insert Sekka & Glint saying, 'That's so cheap!' It hardly does anybody any good to talk about skills if we're running off of different sets of facts. I know, one example of how in the past there was something that someone thought was screwed up but was really just quality lab work being carried out in the field, is hardly a resume of burning trust.. but it's something. :D

Yup, I was talking about PK stuff. Mainly in questing. And in those situations, especially when the bard is focused on me, mirror images give them a huge advantage against any class I use. Maybe I didn't have the right class combination or maybe I didn't know the "unfucking believable" ways to counter mirror image. But, regardless of the 0-images-wait-for-tick-to-wear-off-then-re-sing-it-thing, I still think it's pretty damn powerful.

Mirror image allows the bard to be on the offensive without having to worry about their defenses. Imagine a mage/phys fighting another identical mage/phys. It'd be a long, drawn out fight where one couldn't possible find or even create an opening for a critical hit. With mirror image, the opposing end of the bard experiences this to a large degree while the bard doesn't.

If the wait for the tick to re-up it thing was an intentional balance, then it's a pretty crappy one. Though, I don't think it was intentional (more of a gut feeling.)

As to mob usefulness, my suggestion would probably make mirror images worse for defending against mobs. Although, bards do plenty of other things to help against mobs up to the point where they wouldn't ever have to rely on mirror images to save their ahems. Besides, it's not like the suggestion-change wouldn't help at all.

I dont think mirror image has anything wrong with it, every time senta lecture/screamed birdie he almost died, and I dont see grey having any problems fighting birdie, so just play a bard and stop hating :P

hate to be the one who posts this but complaining something is to powerful when you have a super OP character seems pointless.

Miss. Try again.

explain how i missed?

I have mirror images, that's how. You have six more posts before anything sticks.

Mirror image is still the same regardless of what kind of character I have. Call it scat instead of something else and it still smells the same. Something to that effect.

Arguments about slimes are totally legit, but belong in a different thread.

heh good play on mirror

I only consider the game as how it is if you were to roll up a char and start playing. Special extras that players have aquired are extremely moot. There isn't a special badassness chamber you get transported to upon finishing 10th gen that is only open to a select few.

I'm not a fan of the idea changing the game for just quests. It's not that quests are wildly fake, or cheap, but that a lot of them have random rules forbidding certain skills and spells and items, which then favors some classes over others(fairly or unfairly). Killing mirror image, because Questors don't allow players to use all of their skills/spells/items, would mean Questors would be doing more than just questing but also setting game balance. Usually Questors only have that kind of control when you voluntarily step into their domain by typing quest join #.

Changing mirror image, not killing it.

Plus, it's just suggestions.

You get hip tossed to the ground with a loud SMACK! by Grey.

Didn't catch that one. :P

I'm sure it wasn't on when I did that. I've yet to see a skill be blocked by mirror image, not be blocked on a second occasion and then get blocked again (meaning if it's on, it's 100%).

Anyway, I do see it differently now that I know that it can't be re-sung if it wears off unnaturally. But I still see it as a problem. Either it isn't working for the bard at all or it's working but working a bit too well. If having "0 mirror images" was a balance fix, then it's a pretty shoddy fix. It's like the previous balance fix by adding !bard to almost everything, shoddy. If having it block 100% of the time or near 100% (which I'm sure it is one of the two) was a measurement to counter-balance the "0 mirror images", then it's a shoddy fix.

But of it all, I'd rather see mirror image be applied to group members. If we could all agree on that, then a suggestion for change with that feature tacked on would be nice. -Resinging refreshes the images, -less images, -works on group members, -max of 50% chance for an image to catch an attack.

Greetings and Salutations,

I figured Caden, talking about me, was rather silly..

I had 4 left when I was hip-tossed, 3 mirrors from the earlier fights were burned. I also burned someone else thru mirrors, when there was what one might describe as a random HS arena happening.

gag on, only shows skill misses, all unrelated mirror issues were deleted for compression only

You are being accompanied by 7 mirror images.

You can count what I count, (popcorn aura)

A kobold assassin suddenly appears, seemingly from nowhere. A kobold assassin's attack passes right through a mirror image of you!(6 left) A kobold assassin's attack passes right through a mirror image of you!(5 left) A kobold assassin stomps its own foot rather than yours! That had to hurt!(fail 1) A kobold female stomps its own foot rather than yours! That had to hurt!(fail 2) You are being accompanied by 5 mirror images.(aff check) A kobold assassin nearly throws its shoulder out of socket with its miss!(fail 3) A kobold assassin stomps your foot! Better take a second and rub it!(fail 4) A kobold female stomps its own foot rather than yours! That had to hurt!(fail 5) A kobold assassin nearly throws its shoulder out of socket with its miss!(fail 6) A kobold assassin's attack passes right through a mirror image of you!(4 left) A kobold assassin nearly throws its shoulder out of socket with its miss!(fail 7) A kobold assassin stomps its own foot rather than yours! That had to hurt!(fail 8) You are being accompanied by 4 mirror images.(aff check) A kobold assassin's attack passes right through a mirror image of you!(3 left) A kobold assassin nearly throws its shoulder out of socket with its miss!(fail 9) A kobold assassin's attack passes right through a mirror image of you!(2 left) A kobold female's attack passes right through a mirror image of you!(1 left) A kobold assassin nearly throws its shoulder out of socket with its miss!(fail 10) A kobold assassin stomps your foot! Better take a second and rub it!(fail 11) A kobold assassin's attack passes right through a mirror image of you!(0 left)

7 for 18,

for the sake of averages, I did 2 more tests, resulting average of all three tests, —> %39.62 (the last test had 3 fails before a mirror hit)

I figured posting a log of what it actually looks like, might help.

Those are numbers, that's what the skill does.

Random clip from another test with 6 mirrors left

A kobold thief appears behind you and stabs you in the back with a dagger!

– It's not that I'm shooting an idea down, it's that I'm shooting the wrong idea of what's going on, down… Which is why I mentioned the post about lecture that Elric made. It's not Elric's fault that he was asleep, and didn't see the other stuff that was going on in the room.

Domo,

-Senta Wolf, Shogun of the Storm

I see…

…well, I guess my crusade ends here. I hope this doesn't turn heads away from my suggestions, unfounded as they may be.