To take off on the "revenge"/"hitman" idea posted in the PK thread…

Now, this would require the significant help of the master coders…bow, scrape, worship but I think it might be a good idea how to appease those with a thirst for player blood, and those with a penchant for justice.

Here's the idea (incorporating several from the boards into one, actually):

Whenever someone kills another player, they earn the KILLER flag (like standard) but, they may also call down the wrath of a new class of PC: The Justiciar (and yes, that's the proper spelling..surprised me too!)

What is this Justiciar, you ask? Well, it would be a new class of PC that focuses on the law..primarily, the punishment "end" of the PK laws…but can also serve to help enforce other "laws" of the mud as well.

As it stands right now, from what I can tell, most PK'ers have little to no fear of retribution from either their victim(s) or most other players.

This is where The Justiciar can step in and deal out justice.

Here is how it would work:

Bob the Monk was killed by Slayer, the evil Knight. Slayer took all of the hard earned eq that Bob had acquired, not to mention several hundred thousand gold.

Bob, at this point, can do 1 of three things: 1) get back on the horse and start building his eq and gold again, shrugging off the death 2) attempt to take revenge upon Slayer by attacking/killing him (thus, earning a KILLER flag himself) 3) contact a Justiciar and ask that justice be served.

Bob decides that he a) wants his old stuff back and that he has no chance of defeating Slayer (nor does he want to earn a KILLER flag). He elects option 3 and contacts Jude the Justiciar. He explains to Jude that Slayer killed him and took all of his things and money. He requests that Jude punish Slayer and return his belongings and money.

Jude has Bob document for him exactly what EQ and how much $$ Slayer stole (to the best of his reckoning).

Jude then has posted, in every major gathering place (holy square, etc) and perhaps even some shops, a WANTED poster for Slayer detailing the charges and sentance.

Jude then begins his hunt for Slayer. Should he find him, he can attempt to kill him without earning a KILLER flag (because he is meting out punishment). If Jude kills Slayer, he will take from his corpse only those items that Bob lost, and only the amount of $$ that Bob lost.

If Jude does not manage to kill Slayer, he may want to 1) reconsider his profession (heh) or 2) enlist the aid of other Justiciar's.

Here are some ideas for the Justiciar class:

The Justiciar may choose to attempt to "subdue" their target, or dispense lethal force. How, you ask? Upon reaching a target level, the Justiciar is bestowed with a special weapon (let's use a Police Baton, for example). This weapon has a special affect where it will attempt to "sleep" or "stun" (or some other suitibally incapacitating affect) their opponent. The weapon is a Justiciar-only class (if possible).

Once unconscious, the Justiciar arrests the offender. Perhaps a special item (handcuffs?) may be placed in the offender's inventory and it paralyzes them…something to be worked out, for certain.

Should the Justiciar need to, they may also use deadly force by wielding whatever weapon they wish to use.

Some ideas for offenses and punishments:

Stealing from a PC - the offender is beaten into submission and must pay a) return all stolen items and b) pay a fine (kept by the Justiciar "guild", perhaps).

Killing another PC - if the victim so chooses, they may ask the Justiciar's to: 1) subdue, fine, and return all items/money to the victim 2) subdue the murderer, who is then held over for judgment and execution (perhaps a public beheading by an Admin/Immort?) 3) have the Justiciar be jude/jury/executioner and repo-man upon the murderer.

Some potential problems: Abuse of power. Abuse of weaponry. Misleading info from a victim.

How can these be resolved? 1) an Oath taken by the Justiciar to be fair and impartial in all cases. If ever found to be corrupt or an "oath breake", character deletion may occur, or depending on how serious the betrayal, account deletion may happen. 2) a selection process (rather than allowing everyone to play, only select applicants are accepted–kind of like with the police force) 3) Imms can check log-files for what was looted by a killer if the murderer protests what was taken back from them. So, if Bob the Merc says he was wielding an Axe of the Shadows when Slayer the Psi PK'd him, and the Justiciar loots an Axe from Slayer after dispensing justice–and Slayer protests the taking of that item because he never looted one from Bob, an Imm can check the files to see if Bob actually did have one, or if he was trying to cheat the system. Cheating the system would be very, very bad.

Anyways..this is my thought about how to allow for PK'ing, and still allow the PK'ers some "fun".

After all, how excited would you be if you were a KILLER that none of the Justiciars could bring to justice? That'd be a huge ego and reputation boost, now wouldn't it? :)

Why have a whole other class for it? Just about anybody can be a Justiciar if they want to.

True. But, this way there is more than a motivation for money and power driving the player who is playing a Justiciar. At least, hopefully :)

Those who want to hire themselves out as hitmen to avenge killings are not the same type of people that wish to see justice done for justice's sake.

I think this could be a good idea, but i do have a few modifications

I think the justiciar should be a seperate character but not a class. The person would have the option to set a character Justiciar upon creation, and the player would be set !mobkill and to a higher level more quickly, also maybe a function could be set so they are !pk unless serving justice. That way the only reason for one to be in teh game is to serve justice.

The removal of killer flags and NVZ's out of the game would tweak this idea a bit, but it could still be awesome with some work.

I once tried out a MUD which had something similar to what you're suggesting. To put it in a nutshell, it sucked. Adding "realistic" elements to a fantasy game is just stupid because then you're just playing a simulation of real life. Might as well go play The Sims in that case. I don't know why people keep trying to throw out solutions to the pk policy because whenever a change does occur, it's completely something unexpected, and in all cases so far, fails to solve a problem and just creates new ones.

i dont think anything should be changed, im just sayin if that idea were gonna happen, those were my suggestions :-p

Interesting idea. PKillers will rarely run around with the exact equipment they've taken from someone still in their inventory :p Most of the ones I know recall straight to their house and drop it to sort through later. And unless they want to be kind and give it back, or sell it back…that equipment is gone.

So uhh won't work :p

Why not create a new clan/guild, call it "Justiciar" and have Azi create specific skills that can only be practiced by those that are a memeber of the clan/guild… though if the clan/guild were to have skills assocated with it then it probably by definition have to be a guild… twitches this is kinda a headache though… since clans tend to be associated with socializing/strategic alliances and guilds are more improving ones skill in a given profession… and since anyone/class could potentionally be a member then it would be a clan… holds his heads and groans

wonders off in confusion

Yeah, i'm kinda late, but i aint been on in a while. On the thought of justicars - Shouldnt the offender be given a chance to fight if still consience? i mean like, in the form of a duel or sumtin. I mean, if the guy i kiled was about my level, and i stole the stuff fair and square (oye, i know it aint sound right 'stealing fair and square',but the guy had a chance at least), I'd like to try and keep the stuff, and if i lose the duel, then fine, i lose Twice, or perhaps 3 times the fine's original monetary value, and erhaps a prized possesion. Or, how about parole or sumthing for repeat offenders? Gotta report to a Justicar every once in a while sayin "i,Slayer, shall no longer kill any more defenseless monks by the name of bob, or any other little lads". This would be a pain for PK's who got caught (since they had the choice of fighting their way out), and would lead into more "You'll Never Take Me Alive, Justicar!"'s. As long as the justicar ain't rigged, this should be interesting. 1 last thing. Every class has an alter ego. Evil pally, Necro Cleric, Malo Mage (that one's the workings of Groveler). Why not have the justicar have one? The hitman - you pay him, he takes out the guy, gives you the guys stuff + some, and keeps the rest for himself. Badass with a sword/arrow/staff/laser pistol. Guy would be hunted down by a justicar(s) at all times, but it'd make life fun, always running from something, on the trail of another.

Well, those are my thoughts. Just hope someone reads em : )!

Does anyone even read this posting board?

yes

lol! …..nothing else to say, heartsbane?