The Mage is the worst class in the game. They get 500hp at generation 9 and no offensive skills that even begin to hurt other players. THe Only Good Mage was TOOTS too bad he got IP banned He was the coolest guy ever. You Should Let Him back on.

P.S. Clerics Are Where It's At.

Thank you for that inspiring rant, Heartsbane. We appreciate any and all feedback you have to offer.

I'm Sure Toots Would Like It If You Unblocked His Name From The Realms Board Too. So He Could Rant On Here.

yes, he was cool because he spammed people, and he killed newbies and sacrifice their corpses? heh

so you're pissed because you can't pkill? That's too bad, mages can really kick ass against mobs.

Indeed. Mages are a great class as it currently stands. Fantastic for mob killing :)

mages suck. an air elemental killed me today.

mages only suck as mortals. they get better when they gen up. don't diss mages!!!

Hijacking this thread for something important :p

Again due to observations in the recent clanwar quest. A mage that gets slept who has his manashield at 100 percent will not be woken up by attacks until his mana is gone and his 'body' takes damage. I think that needs to be fixed. Blood splatters as your mana shield gets damaged (that's neither here nor there, just thought I'd mention it) You are taking damage, it should wake you, and wake you properly, not wake up and fall asleep again.

Since it's been a bit dead on here and I was talking with Caden last night about this subject, I thought I'd throw it out for discussion.

Here's the idea. A mage has a number of 'elemental' type spells. Chill Touch, Shocking Grasp, Burning Hands, Lightning Bolt, Fireshield, Fireball, Cone of Cold, Fire Breathing. (There might be a few others, I don't have access to the skills here at present. Actually, that might be a really good idea for the webpage, have the class skills / spells appear)

The theory is, the mage as he increases in power, can make a lightning bolt of a different element (for example) so instead of casting a lightning bolt, it might be a flamebolt…

Now, I'd forget about Chill Touch, Shocking Grasp and Burning Hands being affected by this spell, as they are almost opposites of each other already. But the other spells would be pretty nifty to use in conjunction with this spell.

The other spells (at this stage) are: Lightning Bolt, Fireshield, Fireball, Cone of Cold, Fire Breathing.

The mage casts elemental adapation and then chooses what element to change it to. All of the spells above become a spell of that element. Now maybe the first element that is reached is Ice. Therefore instead of the spells above, the mage would cast an Icebolt, Iceshield, Iceball, cone of cold, Ice Breathing.

As the mage increases in generations he can use more elements. At this stage I'm thinking the spell should be a gen 1 spell. Elements that are reached: Gen 1 - Ice Gen 2 - Fire Gen 3 - Lightning Gen 4 - Water Gen 5 - Acid Gen 6 - Poison

The order of elements could be changed to whatever, this is all hypothetical. Now I don't want the different elements of spells to do more damage… at least not inherently. What it would allow however is to 'configure' the mage so that, for instance, if they were fighting a lot of cyborgs or lightning weak mobs, they could choose to cast all their spells as lightning based attacks.

I'm not sure if I've mentioned this or not, but once the mage has reached the requiste gen for an 'element' he can choose to use that 'element' or any below that gen.

I just think it'd be damn cool to have. Have a read, if there's anything that is not clear, post away.

That's a neat idea Elric, I kinda like it.

The deal with mages is as follows. They are a class that is truely hinged on a single attribute, and that is mana. Their mana is their life (manashield), their defense (buffs), their offence (offensive spells), and their utility. (Summon, enchant, ect. ect.) Mana is everything to a Mage.

To show how this differs from some other classes incase my point isn't obvious to those who havn't played Mage as I have.

A knight relies on his hitpoints to soak damage. His mana is used for some buffs, and also used to replace his hitpoints, so that he can continue to soak damage. His vitality is used for offence. A behead costs 20 Vit. -A knight that is out of mana, can still attack. A knight is out of vitality, he can still heal. A knight that is out of hitpoints, is shit out of luck :D In that we are all alike.

Let me paint a picture if you will, of a knight that functions hinged on only one stat. Rather than having their capabilities spread around.

A behead now costs 90 hitpoints to use, and it saves vs. spell for half damage. Truely all of your skills now cost health instead of vitality, and the use-costs have gone up. All of your buffs now cost X amount of hitpoints to cast, instead of X amount of mana. You still have heal, but it is not useable in battle. Indeed your heal is expensive and costs hitpoints to cast, in order to get hitpoints back. After your hitpoints run out you're not quite dead yet, you're still alive while you still have vitality points. However without any hitpoints left you can't use skills/cast spells to replenish your vitality so you had better have some pills or potions handy. At this point it does not matter if you are able to replenish those hitpoints back up. The damage you incurr will continue to go to your vitality, and 0 vitality means death. The only way to change incoming damage to return to your newly recovered hitpoints, is to cast a hitpoint costing spell. Hitpoint shield :P

For those that haven't played mage before, the above is the mage experience. Although in the above example, you live or die based on your Vitality. It is clear that it is truely Hitpoints that will make or break your success, and your survival.

Mages really are great where they stand right now, except for one thing. The cost-effect ratio of a mage's spellcost, to the spelleffect is just too high considering how pivotal mana is to the mage. If a behead truely cost 90 hitpoints for a knight to use I don't think anybody would argue that it's usefullness and sway in the game would be greatly diminished. Add in damage reduction to the victim of behead on a succesfull save vs. spell roll, and you've really really negated the usefullness of the skill.

The fact of the matter is, with a mage, casting a spell is also taking the spell's cost in damage. It is this combined with the poor cost-effect ratio that cripples the mage.

I emplore the imms to please consider either lowering the costs of mage spells, or increasing their potency. Or a little bit of both, but not to exceed the same effect just changing one or the other would do.

mana shield is so powerful just beacause it gives you +like 1500 manashield hp or more (alot of gen 10 mages seem to have nearly 2k mana) there is no way a mage needs lower mana cost for spells, plus you have locust and can just quaff a volit potion for more mana quick. you need to figure in that you're using protection when you cast, but against mobs this is easy to remedy with locust. i know it's gen 5, so look forward to that. you just need to develop a technique. would you rather not have mana shield? ;-) i'm sure psion would love to have it instead.

Don't believe that 1500 manashield hp are just as nice as you running around with an extra 1500 regular hitpoints.

You say I just have locust, that's great. Outside of battle. You have an in battle heal as well as in battle mana restore as well as in battle move restore. Would I give up locust for all 3 of those which I don't have? You bet your ass I would, Locust is a nice way convenient way to get mana outside of combat, that's it. When it comes to combat, mages still have to be able to come into the battle with enough resources to finish the battle. You say I can just quaff a vol. Sure, anybody can quaff a vol, you have an excellent point. Anybody can also quaff silver teardrops too. So can you, but do you still practice psidrain? Do you still practice wound closure? If the immortals told you a psiblast now costs hitpoints, you've lost wound closure, but you can just quaff silver treadrops.. Would you nod your head and find that reasonable?

Lowering the costs on a mage's spells doesn't make them more powerful. It makes them a little bit more durable. Killing mob (or player) x is still going to take just as long as it always did. The difference you'll see, is that a 3rd or 4th gen mage, will be able to kill Harris, Ip, and Smeal without being out of mana, and only vols, something not available in copious quantities, to get that mana back.

As a psi, you can psifuck, then drain while you kill, and move on to the next guy with reasonable mana. A person playing a psi correctly, can venture out, and never need to return. Being that a psi is able to replenish all of their stats with skills and spells alone. A psi is a self-sufficient class, with every tool needed for possible perpetual gameplay. And not even a combination of classes… This is one single class! I can mage fuck, but my character doesn't come with a built-in way to get that mana back, i'm also draining my hitpoints to do it. And when I start that fight, I better have saved enough mana to finish it. After enough fights, I'm eventually out of resources, and I'm forced to return. Lowering spell costs wouldn't change this, I would just be able to stay out a while longer. I would never be able to endure adventuring like the psion can. Psion is the Lance Armstrong class of Tempus.

Locust outside of combat? Unless I'm wrong it's an in-combat spell. Theres absolutely no reason as far as I've seen that mages need lower costs on their spells. Watching Red in level 7, I saw him go down to 500 mana, locust, and seconds later be back up at 3000. The amount of mana you can get out of locust is just stupid. Yeah, until gen 5 you really "need" another class to get you mana, but thats just how it works. As a bard, we dont get ANY way to get mana back in class, and a bard consumes much more mana than a mage. Basically we're forced to take phyz, or to a lesser extent psi to keep our mana at a constant level. Through all that rambling, I guess my main point is, use locust and abuse it, once you do mana just shouldn't be a problem.

If locust is in battle then my apologies, I was mistaken. I've never seen it used in battle before, so my assumption is that it isn't. I could be wrong.

Locust can be casted inbattle, and it's very effective. Mana costs for mage spells are not really that expensive. You just need to gen up a bit till you get locust. The reason Red is Phyz because it makes him versitile, able to do zones that a mage/thief a mage/ranger a mage/whatever cannot do. Locust is a badass skill, if you use it right. With the right amount of damroll, damage reductions, and the proper technique of using locust, Mages can tank pretty well. At least I can :P Once ya hit gen 5, you won't be complaining anymore I guarentee.

does buffs affect how much damage is done to manashield? or does it only affect the amount of damage done to hp? and i dont remember mages being able to deal 1000+ damage with one spell like scream and psiblast…

Actually pris spray hits pretty hard, I don't think it hits as hard as scream and psiblast do, but, it's also faster so it's well balanced for damage. It's expensive as hell though compared to the other "power moves" in casting cost. And the draw back of hitting faster but not as hard is that people flee automatically, so it's tough to keep your target within kicking distance to keep the hits coming.

There is an inbalance however, and that is in saves. When you are attacked by an offensive spell for damage, Tempus has your character roll to see if you "save". Saving is basically resisting. If you are successful, I'm pretty sure the damage is reduced by 50%. (That is before any other damage reduction). Many pieces of equipment give save_spell. Save_spell is like damroll for saving vs. offensive spells. For example, if you need a 10 or better on a d20 to save, and you have 5 save_spell; rolling a 5 or better will save. (roll 5 + 5 save_spell = 10). Save_spell is by far the easiest and most abundant save to attain. Having enough save_spell to save almost every time is not hard at all. This is why mages have such a difficult time killing other players.

A quick sidebar.. save_breath is what scream falls under. I'm pretty sure psiblast is save_psi. Save_para is for stuff like stun. There's others aswell. The good players manage their saves, you'd be surprised the difference it makes if you havn't paid attention to it yet.