Istari mentioned the wait of monk zens as being one of the class's "downsides." So it got me wondering, what are the downsides of other classes? Conversely, what are the upsides?

Cyborg downside:

Lack of a "knockdown" skill (bash, sweep kick, clothesline, etc).

We only have two "attack" skills: punch and kick. Pretty weak for a "fighter" class. I'd like to see things like "headbut" or "uppercut" added.

Slow progression of Discharge. I do like the "warning" and ability to exceed the normal amount allowed, but I think the amount you can pump in should increase faster.

Having system damage accumulate while fighting in the Arena. That's a negative affect that people might not notice.

Not a lot of low-level programs that are very useful. I think Defensive Posturing should be something fairly early (isn't the "Armor" spell pretty early, and pretty comparable?)

From my experience, implants are either a) very hard to come by or b) not worth purchasing (that subdermal armor doesn't do much of anything!)

It seems also that some of the skills which we can acquire are set at rather high levels, compared to similar skills for other classes. An example is "Energy Field", which compares to the "Electrostatic Field" for the phyz's. They get it at like level 1 or 2, and yet a cyborg has to wait until his 30's…but they do the same thing (from what I can tell!)

Upside: Persistent affects from programs (though at cost of move, which makes sense, of course)

No need to spend LP's for implants.

Cyber surgery is sweet (though only usable on fellow cyborgs). If we can operate on fellow cyborgs, why not a normal person?

The "self repair" is nice, but needing a tool (although it makes sense) is a pain in the butt. A Ranger doesn't need to hold any bandages to perform "first aid"….you know :)

Things to think about:

Damage Control is alright, but how about a "no pain" program? It could be called something like "Cogenic Endorphine Stimulation" or the "Shukutai (spelling) Endorphine Control" (similar to the adrenalize skill cyborgs get).

A "grounding" or "energy absorption/redirection" program that helps to protect cyborgs from electricity. I must say, even though I was protected from electricity, Monkeymotz, at level 30 something, killed me with 1 lightning bolt (and I had almost 500 hps at the time). I can understand the susceptability..but it seems a bit much!

Maybe an enhanced "evaluate"? Something to where we can "scan" a mob and get more stats than just the HP's? I know with, I think Mercs, they get like 3 different pieces of info: hp, defense, offense. Maybe a cyborg could get some similar results, but in numerical form….?

These are just some thoughts from playing a cyborg from the get-go. I hope they help!

Panzer

I havent played alot of any of the classes except for monk and mage. Monks I already said my piece about, and Mages, while very hard to get to remort status as a mort, get much easier to play once you gen and add a second class to it. I personally think mage class is just about right. I don't recall ever spending much time as a ranger, however, I have heard alot of those who have, wishing desperately for a "power" move of some sort. I don't recall hearing any other complaints about Rangers though. Barbarians got that much needed overhaul, and last I heard those who play a barb are happy with it pretty much. I could be wrong here, but borgs might benefit greatly from some sort of a stun move. Thief, Mage, Psi, Monk, and Rangers(if you count entangle?) all have a way to disable a target for a short period of time. I have not had time to think about such a move for borgs, just putting the thought out there. While on the subject of borgs, I think the energy field is supposed to work much like electrostatic field so energy field might be better placed at a lower level, but I may be wrong too shrug. The rest of the classes I will leave to those who have spent a good amount of time playing to complain about or praise. -Istari-

knights should get more skills they can use while wearing a shield, at is stands to use almost any of my attack skills, i have to remove my shield, which means sheild mastery wont take affect while waiting for the lag of the skill to wear off. perhaps make lungpunch usable with a shield, since all ur doing is lunging at someone, that can easily be done with a shield, just my 2 cents

To panzer: get the subdermal armor stuff enchanted or blessed/damned. I think it should give you some ac when you shove it in. Also, energy field knocks people down, thats your knock down skill, electrostatic field doesnt. Of course if anyone has prot lightning when they poke the field nothing much happens. As for the cyber repair thing, implant the tool into your hold position.

Wow, Cest..thanks for the advice!! Those are awesome ideas! I had never thought of them :)

So if you have the tool implanted in the hold position, can you still be wielding a 2nd weapon or holding something and be able to use it?

I didn't realize that energy field knocked stuff down..I alway have it running, but it never seems to hurt anything or knock anything down that I fight :P

Even still, I think it should be lower in level to acquire…maybe comparable to Discharge. The other classes that have a knockdown skill seem to have acquired them by the mid-teen levels (I think clothesline for Mercs is like 11).

Show me a borg that can handle the huge negs in move points at low levels then i'll agree with you on the lowering the level on energy field. Well a level 10 borg might be able to use it… but i dont think you can get far with like 50 move points, and Energy field only knocks people down if they dont have protect lightning i beleive.

While im on the borg subject, what about "self-destruct"? I mean its pretty much useless, only time you ever think about using it is when you're getting killed and is down to like 50 hp. I havent seen much borgs just walking up to a mob and say "Hey stand there for 3 seconds while i blow myself up, and possibly killing you in the process". Why not make self destruct act kinda like wimpy, but makes you blow up instead of run? So like self-destruct 100 will make you start the countdown for blowing up at 100hp. And maybe like make the longer it takes for you to blow up, the more damage it can do(untill it reaches a limit of course). Because the more time it takes, the more time the borg has to like overheat his reactor or what not and create a bigger boom. Of course the borg should have the ability to stop the countdown midway.

And for old time sake, I think phys should get a "Telefrag" skill. I mean can't i just open up a wormhole leading directly into the target?

Anyways besides a lack of a instant kill move, all the mana efficient spells ruins the target's equipment, which i think is perfectly fine, but shouldnt acidity/oxidize destroy the target's eq first before it starts burning them(assuming they are fully armored and such)? I dont see how a bucket of acid can go straight through the target's armor without burning through the armor first, which would probably destroy it in the process.

Borg remort skill idea: magnetic propulsion. the talented cyborg could emit certain magnetic charges throughout certain parts of their body in order to elevate some of their burden… could be similar to telekenesis

There are 2 types of materials in the world if you break them down to magnetics. One type attracts to magets, the other type repels from magnets. Guess which type is which hearts. Cyborgs are half metal half flesh. If you make yourself a strong enough magnet, you WILL be torn apart, or crushed. Also, dropping a magnet on a computer will totally screw it up. Since information is stored with magnetic charges, if you place a bigger magnetic charge on it then the information stored will be pretty much be messed up.

yeah, go off and make the game all real life… its a skill idea for a game, it doesnt need to be scientifically correct

Still… the idea of a computer holding a magnet is kinda… well… suicidal….

Well maybe instead of a magnetic thing, why not allow physses to break anouther law of physics and create an anti-gravity device that is +borg, it should probably be an implant. Also, if im a freaken physicist that can bend reality, WHY CANT I BUILD NUKES TO DESTROY IT? I find the total lack of weapons of mass destruction rather distasteful. <– is joking if you didnt notice.

haha, yeah, that phyz alteration would be cool… and also, yes, phyz should be able to alter 'fission' plane, and destroy EVERYTHING (is joking too)

I'd like for this topic to continue focusing on the classes as they are, and what people do or don't like about them.

Ranger Upside:

We're prettier than all other classes.

By gen 6 we have the ability to tank hoards and hoards of averagely strong mobs at the same time. That is if you remort as a physic. Yay for thornskin/electrostatic field. Oh ya counterattack is cool in this case too. Crazy crazy fun with thornskin and electrostatic field.

Critical hits hurt but randomly. Yay for controlled damage!

Rangers can spirit track, uh, at gen 4 or something.

Rangers second weapon is real cool and makes us even prettier.

We have um sweepkick, possibly the only active offensive skill a ranger would use… ever. Oh wait theres disarm.

Possibly the easiest class to equip. Its extremely rare that I see something that is !ran, and even when I do I think someone's trying to pull my leg and use/wear it anyways. :P

Stoneskin turns me on…drool stone……drool skin….

Ranger Downside:

While we can tank hoards and hoards of mobs rangers have two lacks that give us some problems. One being the lack of a groovy super awesome powermove. Practically any active move that we ever perform is either sweepkick or some secondary class skill. The second is our inability to heal while in combat, making it kinda pointless to be able to tank a room full of goristros only to flee before you ever kill one of them. But hey pants a cool and balloons are even cooler.

I don't know how true this is but I believe that rangers get very little hp even at uber high gens or something… I think. I think the highest hp I will ever get is somewhere around 1.4k maybe if I'm lucky. I donno though, someone please correct me if they see otherwise. But anyways that also ties in with our inability to heal during combat, or something.

I think its only possible for anyone other than monks and cyborgs to make more than four attacks. I understand that now rangers have counterattack which sometimes count as a fifth or even sixth attack, if you're lucky. But thats besides the point, wait… what was my point? Oh ya… Rangers are pretty and because of such we will possibly never see a fifth attack.

Oh ya while I'm already rambling about attacks. Has any other ranger tried to fight with just one weapon? Ya, its like watching the special olympics. Don't even clerics (I'm not picking on clerics or anything, just a random spell casting class here) get a fourth attack eventually? I understand that rangers are able to get a fourth attack in even as a mort sometimes… I think… its been a while. But while haste, adrenaline, 25 dex, tripple attack fully trained, and a second weapon I strikes me as odd that we are "limited" to four attacks. Its like theres is a plateau(I'm pretty sure I spelt that wrong) that everyone hits and we just happen to hit it earlier. I'm not saying that we should be able to get another attack because rangers should somehow because we're special. Just strikes me as odd that a cleric (again not picking on clerics :P) and a ranger standing side to side at gen 8,9, or 10 are limited to the same number of attacks per round or whatever. While most likely the cleric is remorted as psionic giving him utterly no attack skills what soever. Well I guess that one would say that by that point his amount of attacks would be dependent on his haste and yatta yatta buff spells, but then again a ranger at that level are subject to the same buff spells unless I'm overlooking something… like some crazy cool cleric remort spell that makes em attack crazy cool fast… I probably am.

But in any respect I see that as a downside. Theres a plateau(I'm stinking to this spelling :P) that we get to that is the same as any other class minus the graceful monk and the freaky machine-enhanced borg. That of course goes for mercs too, and maybe even knights and barbs… but I don't think they really dual weild or are very pretty.

-Acid, I think. Did I mention that rangers are pretty?

woo freaky machine enhanced borgs

I agree with Arianna, and I've asked for it before. Lunge punch is a nice skill with a s#ithouse description. The mental picture for it just doesn't fit (That could be my faulty reception though). If it was changed to a shield dependant skill that knocked people over (same damage etc etc etc, just no need to remove the shield) it would just freaken rock. Specifically for knights, if lunge was left as it was for other classes that would be cool, but knights should get shield rush and shield bash.

Specifically talking about good knights; Most of you would know that I've done… let's say a lot… of knight gens. Prior to wizlock I enjoyed the class immensely but now find it basically boring. This has mainly come about due to the loss of damage reduction items except for specific classes, and in general the removal of two of the best zones for good equipment. Good equipment is essential for all classes, but particularly knights, as a knights skills / spells are frankly crappy. My memory is a little rusty as Elric has been parked for a while, but let's see if I can remember this accurately.

Spells / Skills that I'd learn as a knight - armor, bless, heal, pray. Sorry, can't think of any other knight spells worth learning at the moment. Skills - double attack, shield mastery, triple attack, lunge punch, behead. And, again, can't think of anything else worthwhile. I'm not saying there is nothing else worthwhile, I just can't think of it at the moment. These spells / skills are very good, BUT there's no variety to 'em, the knight attack spells are crap. The good knight remort spell is rendered useless by the souless flag and the other spell is shared by clerics.

In general, I think they need an overhaul, not necesarily major, but definitely some tweaks.

I'm not sure about what Istari was saying about Barbarians, I must have missed something. Unless something has changed in the last couple of days, they still need more work in my humble opinion, for the same reasons as knights. They have a dearth of decent skills.

Sorry for the length. Hope this is the sorta feedback you were after.

The mage class is probably the best class ive played. The only problem i have is that they get like no hit points.I got killed by a psiblast ot l 30 something, by a professor, jesus christ

I had 600 hp's and got killd by Hypo's Psiblast in an arena…so I feel your pain, Smack :)

I think while there are several classes with problems, some moreso than others,for the most part, adding a second class to your base relieves some of this, altho not to the same degree as in the past now that secondary skills/spells are weaker than they once were. In re: to barbs- I dont run one so i was basing my statement on seeing Death who seemed pretty happy with cleave and whatever that other new skill is hehe.

Now that I have some experience of post wizlock secondary monk, I have to say, a major downside is the inability to specialize in hand worn weapons. Can't we get that changed so that anyone can spec in 'em? I mean we can spec in most other weapons, so why not claws as well?

I reckon if a char wants to spend a generation as a monk they should get the benefit of the specialization in claws. I'm not sure what the problem would be allowing any class this benefit, could a coder elaborate?

Good Aligned Cleric: Upsides: heals kick ass, divine power, righteous penetration, bless & pray gives us no real problem getting decent hitroll, sanctuary and shield of righteousness gives dam reduc, not to mention extra dam reduc during full moon, if i'm not mistaken my heals seem to be better and i hit harder during a full moon too…

Downsides: Until you get divine power, it is just painful, you do 2 hits a round basically, maybe 3 if you don't remort fighter class. can't wield sharp weapons, that reduces damage in a way, then again, we can't mistakingly impale ourselves :P we have to still use holy symbols while evil can go soulless and not worry bout holy symbol, freeing up another slot for eq, no real knockdown, u have crap hp and no ability to knockdown when you're mort, makes it very hard to level with crap bashing down on you, control weather takes forever to work, you fail so many times, i'm casting it now and i'm trying to make it better, yet somehow i caused it to rain, and its supposed to be extraordinary :P until you get heal, the cure minor/critical are a complete joke and can't really do crap but the till gen 5 thing is why people never play clerics

What would you think of something like "Saintly" for good-aligned clerics to counterbalance the "Soulless" of the evil clerics?

I don't know all what soulless does, but I bet that there could be some comparable effects wrapped up into the "Saintly".

Just a thought :)

Well since there are maybe 2 or 3 of my class that plays actively, I'll speak up for the Mercs in the house.

Upside….. Probably just as easy to eq as rangers. hammy cheap to play (no skills past 39) We're pretty quick, though granted, we aren't very pretty Wrench is freakin powerful for the level you get it at. And Elude

Downside Heh, really simple actually, most of our skills are gun related, when i played my first merc i used guns when i got sick of seeing myself hitting with the same 2 weapons and i found that while the Goliant Actions blah blah annihilated rather often, they were really weak annihilates, and extremely expensive to keep loaded. and guns in general just suck, a lot

Our flooring move requires us to remove our second wield, it's not really that big of a deal but it's annoying when i thorw someone then don't get any hits in before they stand up

I know that the imms are working on a new skill set, and i'm super psyched about it. but that't how i see the Mercs up and downsides/

ok so, to sum up borgs: we get wikkid damroll, and attack wikkid fast, two great up sides

down sides: lack of in battle skills 1)discharge 2)…i donno?

yeah, i use discharge, other than that, i just kinda watch them die… i think it'd be cool if borg got hooked up with a set of skills that we could use in battle and stuff, and still attack fast, that would be wikkid…

I posted this in another thread, but whatever.

Rangers are rather sucky unless they have high damroll and a lot of damage reduction ~55%+

Entangle, the only spelldown to the class (it's also gen1 remort) only works in outdoor zones (Amoria, heaven, and malevolent circle are basically the only ones)

The lack of a powermove means no way to deal a lot of damage quickly. That tends to become a problem when you're fighting a mob with 6k hp, 40-50% redux, and 40 dam with 19d9 damage dice; especially since you probably couldn't spell him down.

Stoneskin doesn't give 25% reduction until gen 10. When you first get it at gen 4, it's more like 12-13%

We don't get a lot of hp. Rangers get about the same hp as a good aligned cleric with divine power. Am I the only one that sees a problem with that?

RE: Asus. Yes I see a problem with that. You're comparing what is probably a low gen ranger with a gen 5 (I think to even get divine power, someone correct me if Im wrong) cleric and a gen 5, remort spell.

Unless you're the same generation, race and secondary class as the good cleric you can't compare hitpoints with any degree of accuracy. Rangers definitely get more hit points than a cleric. The spell divine power gives approx 300 bonus hit points.

I know what you're saying Asus, rangers at low gens are definitely boring with basically the only attack skill worth using being sweepkick. But if you keep with it, a high gen ranger especially with physic as it's secondary is a bad, bad, BAD killing machine. Rangers as it currently stand can't really been given too much of an early gen killing boost without unbalancing them at high gens.

All the effects of divine power are highly dependent on gen. It has a short duration even at gen 10, 18 hours at most. It's only 300 hp at gen 10. At gen 5 it will be like 150. It can't be cast in battle either.

The point of all that is, I don't think your comparison of a gen 10 cleric to a gen 1 ranger is fair. Especially since you've made no mention of second classes. Is the good cleric a secondary merc while the ranger is a secondary phyz? In that case, yes, I would except the cleric to have more HP when divine power is in effect.

A gen 10 ranger phyz will have about 1600 hp. If he was a barb I'd expect well over 1800. A good cleric/psi will have about 1100. Which makes 1400 when divine power is cast.

No, I don't see a problem there at all. I think the HP balance is fine.

–N

I think it would be more accurate to say a gen10 ranger/phyz would have ~1550 hp. If i'm not mistaken, you're using Jakezor as a reference, and he indeed did have 1613 hp, but only because he had accumulated a small stash of ambrosias.

I've been thinking this over. It would make sense for rangers to have a moderately low amount of hp (compared to knights and barbarians) if they had something to show for it. For example, monks and thieves have the lowest amount of hp for fighting classes. On the other hand, they each have the first and second most powerful attack in the game, respectively. Monks get very powerful debuff skills and thief gets a very accurate stun.

Rangers don't really have anything to show for their class. According to Azimuth, a ranger is more of a rogue then a straight up fighter. That would make sense, after all we get sneak and hide and would explain the hp. To be of any worth, a ranger needs the damroll because all he does is sit there and type sweepkick over and over again (entangle if he's outside). This is where a pretty much complete reliance on the secondary class comes in.

The reduction of damage and efficiency of secondary class skills/spells really hurt the ranger the most. You never saw a ranger using pele kick or impale because both of those skills aren't really worth the waitstate. Rather, they pretty much exclusively used their secondary set of skills/spells (mostly spells) so that they could debuff mobs as much as they needed to because for the most part, a ranger just didn't have what it takes to take any damage.

Like I previously stated, stoneskin only gives about 12 or 13% damage reduction when you first get it at gen 4. That really isn't a lot, especially since gen4 is when you start taking on the more difficult zones such as Dracharnos or RHTOM. I've heard that ranger is easier to gain 75% damage reduction, but one could just as easily get that with monk which deals out way more damage.

I know, Elric you had a gen10 ranger/phyz once upon a time pre-lock. The only problem is, pre-lock was when most people had 80+ damroll and secondary class skills/spells dealt more damage. You yourself said that you mostly used fission. The problem with the current situation is that it is very hard for a ranger to still maintain an acceptable AC and still have enough damroll to deal enough damage without extensive and very minutious tweaking. This process is very lengthy and also rather expensive.

You're 100% correct on my having a ranger / phyz pre-lock. That was before ranger got some extra nice spells like envenom and elemental branding…and phyz got a complete overhaul, gaining: temporal compression, temporal dilation (Haste and slow, not sure which is which) electric arc (more powerful lightning bolt) but the grandaddy of them all…repulsion. With repulsion you can apply that affect to most of your items (I'm not sure which ones can be affected as I personally haven't played with) and this lowers your AC by a truckload. A couple of my clannies play ranger / phyz and they can easily get to -500AC… which also grants them additional dam reduction. Now if the dam reduction this granted was 1% for every 10 points beyond -300… That's 20% dam reduction. (I'm pretty sure it's something like that)

Basically a ranger / phyz now is at least as good as a ranger / phyz pre wizlock, even if for slightly different reasons.

Exactly Elric, i meant to follow up my post but i had to leave for class.

I agree 100% with what you say that a ranger/phyz can indeed be an excellent defensive force. The catch, of course, is that what if you aren't a secondary physic? It would be a shame to see all rangers reduced to a cookie cutter setup which is why it would be nice for rangers to be expanded and made to fill in the common player's perception of the ranger as an ideal tank. It would be great to see passive defense skills and spells added that would decrease their chances of being hit. Not necessarily ac decreasing, but something a la Uncanny Dodge, the thief remort skill.

That way a ranger can remort to borg, mercenary, knight, or even barbarian and not be almost completely ineffective when trying to level.

Wow, sry i've been doing so much posting lately, but nmy Internet connection is in the midst of bieng changed, so i'm running of of my Cell phones internet connection (14k…..god, this is unhealthy!). If any class needs balancing, it is most Certainly not the Uber borg, or the fairly good monk, but the Ranger and the Merc. The mercanry has 1 extremely hard time finding his guild (its a long walk, if i'm not mistaken) abd finding a good gun is a LARGE pain. Gun shop would solve a large number of problems. (if there already is one, tell me. You then might want to go to HS to see a newbie unholy knight try to drown himself in the fountain, or attempt to kill a Holy defender or Guild Guard) Ranger requires much more tweaking, however. How 'bout making the ranger self sufficent (cant spell at all)? Give him an ability allowing him to do with whats around him and make a small place to sleep, and thereby reduce his cost to Rent? I, as a newbie knight, HATE renting, and if the Ranger is supposed to be part of nature, he should get more skills allowing him to stay seperate of the ways of man. Some other cool skills might include a trap skill (mentioned in another thread, but it'd need to be tweaked though) or some bow enhancing abilities (fire arrow, poison arrow, multishot etc.).

heh, bow enhanceing abilities would be cool, if there were any use in bows. hell, i don't even know if they exist anymore. but that's ok, you are new.

lol, ty. Hehe, i am indeed quite new, but i still have my opinions - like, Why would i play a ranger without a bow?!

Silly.

heh "Uber powerfull borg"…. Hardly Much like Ranger, Borg is not a great tank w/o a good second class. Prime Borg has no constant grounding move (by constant i mean, energy field grounds them occasionally, if they dont have prot_lightning and they attempt to use certain skills on you) They could use a good grounding skill, maybe like, Sweepkick or something.

Borg does get all the passive skills to make it a great warrior, but it gets little dam redux, and not the greatest HP in the world…

hmmmm….sweep kick on a cyborg dont make much sense. Bash? Or am i thinking wrong?

Sweepkick and cyborg makes sense to me, a cyborg should be just as good of a warrior as a barb or Monk, both of which get sweepkick

A few responses:

The mercenary guild is very easy to find, and is not a long walk. It's in Electro Centralis, near the weapon enhancer. Guns definitely need a tweak to be more worthwhile, but the poor coders will have a hellacious time fixing the guns, so I think they just might have been avoiding the issue a little bit :p

Be that as it may, if your a primary merc there is a shop that sells a gun suitable for sniping in the merc guild. There are a few other guns that are available for purchase from shops. Check out Kromguard at some point.

Cyborgs are a long way from uber. They have some nice passive skills, yes, but there actual attack skills are limited to elbow and discharge essentially :p The get average Hit Points, hardly any mana, not sure about movement as most primary borgs tend to go half orc or orc for the double move points.

Rangers on tempus are different from the general perception of rangers yes, I agree. However they still rock. They really don't need anything to make them better, at least at this point.

Bows unfortunately have been changed so they are treated exactly like guns. If you identify a bow it will say it's item type: GUN. Therefore until / unless they change bows to a seperate item type, I imagine it would be bloody hard to have any fire arrow type abilities implemented. Basically these sort of abilites will be implemented about the same time that the gun code gets fixed :p

Which is probably just this side of Never ;) (I'd love to be proved wrong though) GRIN

the two worst classes in my opinion are phyz and cleric, and since im always right than its true!

Hans you are retarded. You don't give any explanation other than " I'm always right". I happen to be an evil cleric, ok, and I'd be willing to bet that I'd give you a run for you're money.

i used to play an evil cleric. They are not tha bad. In fact, if u play them right, they whoop major buttox. And hans is, although Ignorant to the max, correct about 1 thing- Physics suck. Majorly. Monks are fine though. So hans, pretty good thoughts, just give better explanations. Now to let someone else rip into me….tata for now!

VERY sorry to double-post, hadn't read Elric's post yet. Excellently, Excellently put Elric. Your oppinions were well backed, educated, and humorous. Also, u provided some insight on areas i was NOT so keen on (most of my mercenary complaints come second hand - i'm just reprinting them for those to shy to post). Thank you for shedding your thoughts on the subject, Elric.

A response to the physic haters: Have you guys read the news lately? (it's been a couple of months) Physic has received a major boost in that a whole heap of new physic alterations have been added. Physic has, in fact, become one of the most popular secondary classes on the mud.

While it may be true that a primary physic as a mortal sucks (I wouldn't know, I've never played one) they have some of the most useful abilities in the game, repulsion, spacetime imprint/recall, econvert. Combine that with the slow and haste alterations, gravity well, electric arc, gauss shield for the primary remort physics (Increased dam reduction from metal wielders)…

Wow the new physic is freaken great :p Just get a friend that can spam level* your mortal physic ass up to remort level and you'll never look back. Quite similar in that respect to mages.

*Refer to the policy on rules about spam levelling. Pretty sure it still states as long as the player has a multi above level 25 it's okay.

in response to hans' post, clerics do NOT suck, and prime phyz'es definately don't suck, these two classes just take time to get to a higher gen, but once there, they're a force to be reckoned with.

what does "no pain" do? i have gotten blasted on Firebreather plenty o times, seen that i "felt no pain" and then realized no differerance in my fighting abilities except for the fact that i would fall down alot! what does it do?!

You take less damage from every attack. At least that's what the real nopain psi trigger does. Not 100% sure of how effective getting drunk is for that though ;)

thx. Probably a less powerful version of the phys thing. O well. Still fun prancing around like a jolly irishman with a bit too much of the poison in him : )

Prime Psionic

Upsides:

1. Nopain and dermal hardening. This makes for a nice combo of damage reduction.

2. Negative effects on targets attributes.

3. A powermove called psiblast.

4. Resistance from other psionics.

Down Sides:

1. Very Low Maxhit.

2. Secondary psionic combined with any other class results in same damage reduction and benefits prime psionic has. This results in the prime class to loose popularity and effectivness. This is a huge down side becuase basicly a prime psionic is not unquie from someone who remorts as secondary psionic. Which leads to next downside.

3. Non-exsistant remort triggers to extenquish prime and secondary psionic. (Meaning remort skills/triggers that are very usefull.)

4. No reliable knock down.

5. Not being able to manifest energies outside the body with level and generation raise.]

6. Each class that does have low maxhit has a pet spell. Evil clerics…unholy stalker, mages…summon elemental…, even rangers and evil knights get a pet. The only exception is good cleric which has the best in battle heal and out of battle heal, and physic which gets a mortal field called electrostatic field which blocks many attacks. Physic also gets arguably the most useful remort alterations.

7. Does not posess a dodge, block, or defensive way to avoid an attack besides from its classes triggers.

good knight

upsides:

1. behead- killer powermove
2. sanctification- added damage to evil mobs
3. shield mastery- blocks hits from mobs when wearing a shield
4. high hitpoints- i think so anyway

downsides:

1. eq selection- there is not alot of stuff that is unique to good knight
2. sanctification- is good but has a major downside cause its useless when mob/player is soulless
3. having to remove shield to use every skill. mainly behead and lunge punch
4. class uniqueness- most all spells and skills aside from behead and sanctification are taken from the spells of another class

cant think of anything else at the moment im tired…to reply to what infinity said about pets…good knights dont get pets either :)

Evil Knights:

Upsides: 1. All the things Kakarot said (minus sanctification) 2. Soulless. Meaning great hell eq without being hunted and not having to wear a holy symbol. Also, symbol spells (symbol of pain, stigmata, taint) and sanctification are rendered ineffective against us. The spell damage increase isn't really useful for us… Oh, and we wake up faster from lecture. 3. Horned devils that NEVER die (They're like ghosts, so most mobs can't hit them) 4. Taint is one of the best PvP spells out there.

Downsides: 1. Our heals aren't that great. They still heal about 90ish, and I still use them, but good aligned is way better. 2. Our three best battle skills, behead, lunge punch, and shield mastery, all require different eq configurations. 3. As far as I know, we attack the slowest of the fighter classes (I'm not counting thief) 4. Alignment restriction limits eq selection and secondary class possibilities 5. Offensive spells still suck

                =-WARNING:OFF TOPIC-=

CRAEDRIC! You still play? (Its me, inferno/xaedor/babies?)

               =-END OF RANDOMNESS-=

I think the psi class is good overall, but has 2 major flaws: firstly, you run out of mana waaaaay too fast. A few psiblasts, at 50 mana a piece (which should, in my opinion, go down as you level)and you are out of mana. Secondly, their health is PITIFUL. At level 43, i had only 130 health. That makes thieves look like bodybuilders. Given, psions have pretty much left their bodies to rot while they develop their minds, but 130 HP at level 43 is ridiculous.

Also, they need more remort skills. They suck as of now.

Clerics don't suck. My evil cleric has 1500 hp while my good cleric has 1800. That's more than most other classes, such as my mage, which only has 600 hp, but 2500 mana. :D

you need to up your int and con inferno…and you have a nice little skill for regaining mana which is called psidrain use it and learn to love it

Class downsides,

Every class sucks except for maybe monk, and they're only just marginally better than suck, which is still pretty crappy.

The classes themselves have no strength in them, every character in the game as an individual is fragile and weak and couldn't clear slavers if it weren't for the equipment they wear. Slavers can whoop your ass naked. Think you can handle pit fiends no problem? They're naked, go take one out naked aswell in a fair fight. I hear the whining, "But pit fiends are devils so that's different". Alright then, take your scrawny ass to Kromguard and go pick a fight with one of their guards. Or how about the tubby Mr. Goodbar. Go ahead and wield a bag of Reeces pieces if you think it'll help. :p

The class that doesn't suck is called Mobile, and derivitives thereof.

There are no heroes on Tempus, no badasses. The king of Tempus is the steroid injected over inflated equipment that we wear.

//End just-woke-up rant.

Thrax. Way to know stuff good, the 50 HP of psiblast in fact DOES go down as you level, or at least it did last time i played one, eventually it only starts taking like 44 mana i think?

Psiblast most definately is ALWAYS 50 mana, Gen 10 or gen 1, It also costs 10 or so move.

The main drawback of psidrain is most mobs dont have enough mana to drain. brywing can use 800 mana to spell someone/thing down, It's hard to get all that back. Some mobs are not psidrainable or affectable in general by psi attacks of any sort.

excuse me, psiblast uses exactly 10 move.

How can i get my mage to kill the big guys? they are supposed to be awsome at attacking, they are supposed to be able to kill mobs in one or two spells. in other rpgs, mages are superfast and super powerful. so can't the int of mages be uncapped, so that they can actually kill the mobs in one or two spells and make their hp way down so that they can get killed easily when hit.

just a suggestion….

Ideally killing a mob would be as easy as killing a player, however they would also be just as lethal as another player. The problem isn't that mages and their spells are too weak. It's that even relatively weak mobs are still serious tanks compared to to a character of the same class(es) race and level.
A couple of things need to be different in order for that change to happen, but hopefully sometime in the future we'll see those changes happen.

Mages are physically frail and have powerful, fast spells. Your problem right now is that you're low level/gen. Mages are capable of dealing obscene amounts of damage in relatively little time. Once you gen up and get mana shield, and locust regen, not to mention combining it with a second class like phyz for econvert or ranger for hp and redux, you'll not only have insane damage dealing capabilities, but you'll be able to tank like a barbarian. Just tough it out and the rewards will be great.

but when a Ranger can Annilate me like ten times before i can type the spell in, and that Ranger are able to attack ten more times, before i'm able to cast my second spell