Rinvis should be brought back. If I recall correctly, it was taken out because of "unfair pk". As in big people rinvis'ing over little people and killing them. Now that you are nopk until gen 5, this wouldnt be as much of a problem. Also, since Toots and Trisk dont play anymore, they wouldnt cause as many problems.

What would be the point of putting it back in? It exists as a way for Immortals to work without being overly bothered, and to check in on the world of mortals without their presence being known. The only reason outside of the immortal realm is to hide yourself, and what real reason is there for that unless you were out to PK. If you're going to PK at least have the balls to show yourself. I for one vote that it stay the way it is.

I think one of the biggest reasons that it was taken out, was when a true newbie logged onto Tempus, he was greeted with a blank 'who' because everyone was Invis in one way or another. If there has been anything within all the changes lately that I must give kudos to, it's that you know who your dealing with when you play. It seems player counts are higher lately to some extent do to this I'm certain, and I would love to test if PK was restricted even more, if attendence would continue to rise.

You already have unfair advantages when Player Killing, more aren't needed.

-Wrath

I completely agree with every word that Wrath just wrote in his post. I see no reason to bring back rinvis to the way it was. In my opinion, rinvis was used primarily as a pkill tool and if it were brought back, it would be used in the same manner again.

Also, I don't see how the no pkill before gen 5 thing solves the "unfair pkill" issue with rinvis. A gen 10, level 49 could still rinvis over a gen 5, level 48 and kill without warning. Just because those under gen 5 are safe, it doesn't mean gen 5-gen 9 are safe also. I mean I still think it's pretty unfair for a gen 10 to be killing a gen 5 using rinvis. At least if the gen 5 can type who and see known pkillers, they have some way to protect themself.

The only way I could see bringing rinvis back is to have it so you can only rinvis when you have pkill off, and you wouldn't be able to turn on pkill again for a set time after you rinvis 0. This would bring rinvis to its intended use, which would be to allow higher gens to hide from annoying newbies.

Wrath - the problem of an empty who has been fixed. Instead of not seeing transparent and invis people on Who, they simply show up as Someones. This could be the same way for rinvis, hell, i dont care if you can even see their name on who when you cant see them. As long as you cant drop them tells, and cant see them in the room, i can dig it. It would give higher gens a way to get away from the annoying people, it would let people see that they were on, and it would allow people to know when people that they should avoid are on.

Also Wrath, there are more people on lately? Maybe more then there were a few months ago, but I remember when 20 people wasnt very many, and averages were up around 35.

Oh well, I cant remember what other wrong points you made in your post, so I cant very well learn ya on those subjects.

<3 Here

ok after going back and reading your post again, i have another point to make.

"It seems player counts are higher lately to some extent do to this I'm certain, and I would love to test if PK was restricted even more, if attendence would continue to rise."

IF PK WERE RESTRICTED MORE!? Theres almost no PK on the game at all right now… Look at prewiz, people played then, PK restriction has been extended by 205 levels (gen 0 level 41 - gen 5 level 1) since then.

Yeah, lets take PK out completely, even if more people started playing, im willing to bet lots of people would quit.

You misremember, Here. There was never a time when 35 was average.

There was a peak of 50 or so just after the last wizlock, but everyone was multiplaying. We've had 20 players as a daily peak before, but for nearly a decade it's generally hovered around 15 or so. Even then, around 2 or 3 of that is idling players.

These figures don't include online imms.

We've never been a hugely popular mud. Just a great mud. :D

Yea seriously, there is no PK on this mud. There's like 2 or 3 people who pk, and I'm one of them. RINVIS would be great, and would heighten my pk abilities, but I dont need it.

I don't really see the need to have this feature. You say it's so people won't bother you, you can use notell. And as far as being in the same room with someone who will annoy you, no one idles out of their clanhouse so if you are annoyed by your own clannies maybe there is another issue at hand :P

Unless you can come up with a better reason to have rinvis, I don't think there is a need for it.

Essah, 1. i idle around mod all the time. 2. how can noobs bother me when im idling? usually when i idle im afk :D

Azimuth,

1. i exaggerated my numbers for a good arguement, i remember there being more active players then there are now :D
2. hi

I think it would be nice to have remort invis back in.  Either way you look at it immortals can gonna get bugged anyway.  There are newbies on here that think only immortals can help em anyway.  Some petition for eq and xp.  Rinvis is not needed for pkill reguardless.  Those of us that pkill have been pkilling without it so why do we need it?  

Any if rinvis does get rinstated back onto tempus why not make it a special gen 10 thing. Gives us something us mortals to work for. Right now there isnt anything special to get for reaching gen 10. After you remort gen 10 again you get a qp. Im not saying thats not good but a lot of people struggle all the way from lvl 1 and reach gen 10 lvl 49 to do what? Remort again or make a new char? I know a few people with nothing but gen 2s and 3s and 1s. They have no reason to get up any bigger.

I will agree that everyone here didnt make a good point of why rinvis shouldnt be coming back but I think it would be a nice touch. When someone rinvis it can still say someone is there but hide the title and what they are and lvl and just show someone. I mean its not like rinvis is permenent anyway. If they wanted to be vis they can. Also if rinvis was made for gen 10s its not like everyone on the mud is gen 10. So if they want to socialize or group they will have to vis down anyway. The rinvis for pkilling just set a timer for 10mins after you unrinvis to pkill or make it if you are rinvis you cant pkill at all. shrug cant pkill after 10mins or something like that so you cant walk into a room and stand there vis up and cap someone. anyway Thats my 1 ¹⁄₁₆ cents.

There are not many things, if any, that have been taken out and put back in. Seems like a pointless cause to me.

One thing that i have learned on Tempus is to accept the changed and move on.

-Phishy

Another thing that I'd like to correct is that before wizlock, people were more protected than you say Here. If my old mind remembers correctly, people w/o tough guy flags were protected from pkill. And I'm not sure about this, but if I remember, I think you didn't get a tough guy flag until you remorted to gen 3 (unless you turned pkill on before that). So, pkill restriction hasn't been extended 205 levels as you say, it's only been extended 2 gens, gen 3 and gen 4 (98 levels).

Everyone has made solid points, and I can understand how rinvis could be missed. I believe, however, that the removal of rinvis was the correct decision and that Tempus is better off.

No rinvis provides Tempus with a more social atmosphere. For example, "Someones" on the WHO list are not the same as the real characters' names. Also, rinvis was instated during a time when pk policy was different. The dynamic on Tempus is different now as we strive for greater community.

The Immortal team works to provide you with seemingly limitless interesting decisions to make with your characters. Some ideas work, some don't, some get implemented, some get revoked. Change remains an ever constant on Tempus.

I do not foresee rinvis being reinstated. While some of the points are good, there is not a compelling enough reason to do so.

Fond farewells, rinvis.

     (sniff)

• wish * head architect *

ya lysol good point, in that case, lets bring back TG :)

I agree, forget rinvis and let's get PK back to being worth doing.

yes if i had to choose between rinvis and a better PK system i'd choose the latter.

Could not agree anymore with Wrath and Lysol, great points guys.