The change under discussion here is to give items in corpses wear positions, like they are when the creature was alive. Then, removing a worn item would take a wait state.

Instead of "get all corpse", a new command would enable you to type "loot corpse ". It would get money and inventory items on the first invocation. Typing "loot" again would take a single piece of worn equipment would be taken. A new thief skill "rapid looting" would reduce this time.

Upon death, wielded, second wielded, held, and light items would be dropped on the ground. Inventory items would also be dropped.

Aside from making death more interesting and realistic, its main purpose is to make it harder for pkers to full loot, while still allowing them to get a fair share of their booty.

Responses are encouraged. :)

There is only so much "realism" a game can take before it starts to take away from the overall fun factor of the game. Look at Counter-Strike, the developers added more and more restrictions to make the game more "realistic," but now the game sucks.

Personally, I won't like it if you have to type "loot" 24 times to get the entire set. That, and it will promote corpses destruction even more.

I think that's an awesome idea, but it would promote corpse destruction and sacrificing even more. The only way around this is to make corpses indestructable, and not sacrificable if they have gear in them. Those are my only thoughts on this.

People would just bring thiefs with them to look the corpses or empty the corpses into something else. They would get around it. why dont you just put back a law for 5 items per pk?

Rapid Loot won't make it the way it was before, it would just make it slightly faster. Plus, carrying a thief around would be unwieldy. You can't trust someone else to do your work with the precision you would expect from yourself. Think about having a giant clump of skin attached to you that did everything that you wanted it to, but you had to talk to it through a language, rather than just brain signals. It wouldn't work. That negates your point Arial.

while you're at it why not make death permanent, or making it possible to starve to death, or make people fall at 9.83 m/s^2, or include friction and air resistance while flying/walking?

/sarcasm

I think realism should be left in the real world. If i couldnt full loot someone to really piss him/her off(not like i would) then i would probably just econvert the corpse :P. I think its fine the way it is, but just leave like a limit on how much items you can take if you pk someone.

lol its not hard to tell a thief to come and get all corpse for you =P you dont have to send brain waves to each other.

limits are nice but that also requires imms to act as police at times and to truly make pk a part of the game again i think we need to brainstomr new ideas…. i definatly think this is starting on the right path… like someone is going to pk and give stuff back… that makes really no sense… so if we can limit what can be looted it would help bring back pk, i hope… and it would prevent people from full looting and pissing people off enough to quit…. also, imms would not need to waste time acting as police and make sure all but 5 items are.were returned…. sure its not perfect but its a start…. i think people are taking "realism" and "irl" as one and the same…

some things that would need to be taken into account are:

how would this apply to people who retreive, and them getting their own eq off their corpse. maybe rather then retrive your corpse, they retreive your eq and you are handed it in a bag or something like that….

what about empty corpse? maybe this would be taken out of the game and give a message like "a corpse is not a container, how can you empty it?"

think of answers and possibilites rather then just bashing ideas… offer something to the discussion… think of problems… think of how it would change the game… etc… etc….

i also think, and maybe its implied…. that if something like this were implamented then the reputation pk policy be removed and something similar to what we had with toughguy flags be put back in….

again… think of answers … dont just bash ideas and not give reasons why.

I think it would just be a matter of convenience. If i had to retrieve my own corpse after getting totally splattered by something i would have to like take a while and like spam "loot corpse" a million times. I think everything should be left the way it is except like "get all corpse" there should be like a wait time between each item you get off the corpse. The wait time should probably be based off the weight of the corpse, since im pretty sure its harder to remove a shirt off a 900 pound thing compared to a 100 pound thing, but stuff like shoes and hats should still be easy to remove. Then you would have to consider people just blowing up corpses and picking up everything. Corpses should probably take more effort to blow up(or just remove that option from the game), maybe it would also be based off how heavy the corpse is. I think econverting corpses should not be allowed if there are items in the corpse, that way it would prevent players from losing all their eq to evil phyzs insert evil laughter here.

As for the weapon dropping thing and the inventory dropping thing, that would make sense, but then the player has to walk back and get it(it would really suck if you dropped it in hell or something). If a mob picks it up and wields it or what ever then that player would pretty much be screwed untill he/she finds a replacement. It should probably happen once in a while or depend on how hard the mob hits you on the last hit. If like a mob blows you up with a tank or something im pretty sure your corpse would definatly drop what ever that is in the hands, but if a mob like pokes you to death with a toothpick then i doubt you would drop your weapon.

Perhaps the retriever could find the weapon for an extra price(assuming someone didnt claim it already) shrugs

But i still stand by my belief that realism should be left in the real world =P

Well first of all theif shouldnt be the only class to get this skill, they already have a stun that i personally have never seen fail, a backer with huge multipliers, hide, sneak, and other various skills that make them obviously the best pk on the mud. so, since they could already relatively easily team up and rule, why dont we make them the only players in the game able to full loot to? yeah… nice call i think the pk policy is fine right now, (except maybe if we wanted to go back to toughguy wink) and i agree with cest, that the realism should stay in the real world, otherwise, we could make skills that take mud years of wait states to learn in order to be able to "build a time machine" and travel between the past and the future

Just my thoughts….

I think you guys are focusing way too much on my realism comment. I just thought the realism was a nice bonus. I'll tell you what effect I'm trying to achieve and my thought processes, and then maybe you'll understand (or maybe it's just a dumb, unplayable idea and I need to stfu)

PKing is going to be much less restricted in the future, so I'd like for it to be more difficult for pkers to full loot, without killing off looting entirely. I don't want immortals to have to intervene, and I don't want a rule that has to be enforced. Whatever the solution is should blend seamlessly into the game world. I would <i>prefer</i> that that solution be applicable to mobs and PCs both.

The instantaneousness of "get all corpse" is what makes it easy to full loot - easier, in fact, than just grabbing a few choice items. So one idea is to make it less instantaneous. How? By introducing wait states, of course. Since worn equipment is generally more valuable than stuff carried in inventory, it should be the stuff that's protected more, which translates into "more wait state." This can be explained realistically (after the fact!) by the extra time it takes to take off a piece of clothing.

Ok, so removing a worn item from a corpse takes more time. But what happens when people type "get all corpse"? On a fully equipped corpse, that would unacceptably laggy. "looting" one item at a time would be way more reasonable than incurring an additional wait state for each and every piece of eq on the body. It would also allow pkers to grab specific items that they might want.

The weapon and inventory dropping bit was just a thought as I was typing.

Does the corpse object keep track of who it belonged to? I can't recall and not gonna log in just to check it - :P… for retrieving chars and item recovery we could set 0 or greatly reduced loot waits for looting your own corpse…

or we could make corpses easier to pick up.

Something I have on this topic is that gear is easy to acquire. There is a very small amount of gear that would even be sold for more than 10mil, maybe what we need to powerify the economy is less restricted player killing with less restricted looting.

but wouldnt it just make it harder for the lower end players to get back up on their feet if they get pked and full looted? Im begining to see why the loot corpse idea might be pretty good, since if someone pks you, you would probably end up with only half of your stuff being looted instead of all. But should it be applyed to mobs? It would just be really inconvenient imo.

i dont see looting mobs to be a big concern. many mobs only load with a handful pieces of equipment. so ya, looting a mob with lets say 4 items may take you 4 seconds longer. in the scheme of things i dont think it would be niticed that much. perhaps there are different wait stats azi could apply in player corpses vs mob corpses… i dont know that kind of stuff.

i think ive said this before, but the biggest concern i have is corpse retreival. how would this be handeled? could re ceveive out implants and equipment in a bag? and maybe the corpses are just left behind.

someone was talking about only theives getting this skill. from what i understand everyone would be able to loot corpses… and the theivs would be able to speed loot at a certain level/gen.

the way i look at its worth a shot and we can tweak it as we go. right now pk'n is does not exist. so if we add something like this into the game it would be vertually impossible to full loot.

-gaz

I dont think you looting mobs is that big of a deal, its more of mobs looting you, but still, mobs dont usually full loot you if they kill ya

I'd like to stress the point Gazoo is trying to make.

I'm for loot as long as when you're retrieving all of your stuff comes back (assuming someone hasn't already taken pieces of it). Fast loot for thieves is a good idea as well.

Screw having to run back to where you died to get your light and weapons and stuff :p

I always thought that pk'n was pointless (to a degree :P) and that you really should either be set !pk or pk, cuz i hate pk :P But besides that fact, I do like the idea of the wait state because it makes the life of the pkee easier, and the pker harder.

I'm digging the ideas of the wait state, but maybe add some code to wear the Owner of the corpse can get all from the corpse with no wait state. That way when you're trying to get your eq from the retriever you don't have to waste any time finding the pker :P

I would also like to comment on the pk policy in that i like the way the reputation thing works. Tough guys suck. They never did work, because the first time you accidently hit someone, BAM, tg, rtg. I didn't like that era :P My personal favorite was when the whole game was !pk =D But that isn't going to happen. I'm fearing that if PK is less retriced that people are going to be scared to even leave a nvz. (I'm an exception, I never leave a nvz :P) But being pk'd wouldn't be a big thing anymore, just something that happens. But i still think that restrictions should be placed on level/gen of who you can pk. (See my other post :P) We can't just have a bunch of pk's running around wild, pk'n anyone they want! I understand that PK is a part o the game and everything, but it shouldn't be that big of a part where everywhere you go, you have to look over your shoulder. Real life isn't like that :P I don't leave my house and run to my car. Tempus shouldn't be like that either.

Just some thoughts.

-Aco

As someone who dies on a regular basis while trying to level, I have no problem with the dropping inventory/weapons upon death idea. Yes it would be a bit of a pain to go back and get these items after you died but it would be more realistic for sure. I also have to agree that full loot should be less readily available to any player of any class. When I was learning the art of PK years ago, someone told me it was better to remove SOME (1-5 pieces) of a persons EQ than to full loot because it didnt remove that victim from the game for a long period of time, they would be less likely to quit, and thus, lessen your pool of targets. My only idea on the subject would be to count any inventory/weapon items that fall to the ground as free items and somehow code into the game either a random or preset allowable # of lootable items from the victims corpse. I.E. I kill player xyz and type loot corpse. The game allows me to remove whatever # of items from the actual corpse, then says I can't remove anymore items from that corpse and if I typed loot corpse again, it again might give a message about being too greedy or something. I could feasibly come away with alot of looted items depending on what the player had in their inventory or containers in their inventory. I would also suggest that if a player chooses to cram 50 items into a container, everything in that container would count as a single item if the container were worn and looted. This system would not stop the ever ambitious thief types from stunning a player and spam-stealing more eq than they could get if they killed them outright but that is another issue entirely. I do think mobs should have the same limitation as us players on how many items they are able to loot from corpses as well, once again, dying should be a lesson learned, not a one way ticket to 'you are now screwedville'. On a final note, I would like to see an end to the your corpse can't be located deal because you died in an isolated place like gith for example. Having to do more work than normal, I would agree that the retrievers fee might double or triple if he has to retrieve your corpse from such a place, but except in the cases of your corpse being eaten or destroyed, we should not see that message anymore IMO. Sorry this post is like 4 months from the last one, but I had to give this alot of thought. -Istari-

ok, so it lets you take a certain number of things, and that number is decided by the game, and when you type loot corpse you get the first (#) of things in the corpse, so lets say you PK someone for their teeth of sekolah or their acidic blade. im sure they would rather have you take it the first time then kill them over and over trying to get it.

Hold the phone…

I think some of us missed the fact that Az said that PK was going to be LESS restricted in the future.

Let's just say that it is not very appealing to me at all.

Along the idea of looting…

How about making what you grab when you "loot corpse" or "auto loot" a random grab, with a little less wait time.

Then, if you want to specifically grab something, it makes you have a longer wait time.

Example: "auto loot" You grab a belt (wait 3 seconds) You grab some boots (wait 3 seconds) You grab a helm (wait 3 seconds) etc…

"specific loot" you enter: loot armor corpse You grab some armor (wait 7 seconds) you enter: loot shield corpse (wait 7 seconds)

Just an idea.

eh, i'd just discharge the corpse and watch all the stuff fall to the ground

First off, implementing my idea would not restrict PK. It would merely affect the looting after the pk. It might actually increase pk to be honest.

Secondly, If this system went in, it would almost go without saying that corpses with eq in them would not be able to be econverted, discharged, sacrificed, or destroyed in any other way by a player, or of course, there would be no point in having the loot limitation in the first place.

Thanks -Istari-

Panzer said:<br/><i>Hold the phone…

I think some of us missed the fact that Az said that PK was going to be LESS restricted in the future.

Let's just say that it is not very appealing to me at all.</i>

Hehe. I think you missed the fact that I said that in October.

It's already happened. I would be interested to hear opinions on the waitstate based on current experience, though.

Boy, remind me not to post to the board really late at night after being up for hours on end feeding my kids :)

I think it is a bad idea. If i kill someone you bet your ass that they pissed me off, and i'll be damned if i'm gonna give them a chance to strike back. Me fully looting their corpse only makes it harder for them to get revenge. So what are we saying? I'll kill you but you keep all your shit, and come at me full force for revenge? Screw that shit, I'm gonna handi-cap you to the fullest, and make it as difficult as possible! And on that note I'm out, PEACE!

And it's post this like here and on the boards on the mud why you've been killed and harassed as much as you have. It's not a coincidence. Have you heard of the phrase, 'Chill out?'

I wonder why i never heard of Hans.

first off how do u not know a player that was in your own clan. and second off i think that the little time laps for lootin corpses is a good idea. that way there is a better chance for u to get most of your eq back. ive been pkilled 3 times and lost all my eq twice with the exception of kraz cause he gave it back. i think this is a very good idea

It is pretty simple. No one gave me a list of who was in my clan, I only knew a few of the people in it and I could count them on one hand. As far as me being killed a bunch of times all hans is is my pker. I have other characters, who I might add, behave quite well. I lost all my eq, so i went out and killed a bunch of people for some more. Grow a pair kakorat, if you get pked, go kill a friend of the assailant and take his shit, full loot is here to stay so deal with it.

Hey elric, Im aware of that, but People act as if I'm the only killer in Tempus. I got 41 kills and im goin for a hundred! :P

im not aboot killin friends…i want revenge on that person. it will come soon they cant be bigger than me forever. so ill wait for my time to get revenge. i cant really get revenge on seven cause he was deleted so theres only 2 other ppl that killed me and they will get theres. and i have no prob with full loot the more power to u if u killed me.

Uhh…Seven was deleted? Did I miss something?

all of his characters were deleted if im not mistaken

Sorry to hijack the thread, but was it reported anywhere why? Like is it on dias board the same way it was for Toots? Alternatively could someone explain?

hmm, i guess he "mouthed off" to someone, the imm's had enough of it, and froze him or something… i believe his characters are still there, not deleted, but frozen, and no, i dont believe it was on the dias board or anything of that effect, everyone just heard about it from him

i was recently on a mud that had a special code for looting after a pk player a gets killed by player b, each item player a has has a 10% chance of dropping to the ground, and this item or pile of items were the only thing(s) player b was able to take, everything in the corpse was untouchable. it seemed to work pretty well, just thought i'd throw that out there for ya'll to flame :p

ok, that would just promote player a killing player b over and over until s/he got the piece of equipment he wanted, and im sure player b would just rather have the person take the gear once and give back what they dont want then getting killed lots of times