Hi Everyone,

This is one for the imms (and possibly discussion for the players. I was just curious why getting an oedit got nerfed so badly. Was there something wrong with the process for custom items being transparent? (i.e. you knew exactly how much it would take to get something).

Currently it's 25 qps for an oedit with one change and there are no guidelines.

Here's what it used to be, taken directly from the old help file. (this is probably going to be messy due to realms not having formatting for anything):

OEDIT PRICES

Oedit: Any object that is paid for with quest points to be altered from its original state that costs at least 25 quest points. This object is protected to the point that only the purchaser can use the object. It is returnable in any circumstance except sale of the object to which the protection is then removed.

How to decide the pricing of your oedit: All oedits costs minimum 25 quest points. Of these 25 quest points, 21 of them are the cost of having your item protected. The other four points are the choice of two items from the BASIC group. If you do not want any of the items from the BASIC group, you may use the 4 extra quest points towards the other possible items that are available for a higher cost (if you want one, you can put the other two towards the cost). From there you need to decide what else you want on your object. The price for each affect or attribute is then added to the cost. An oedit may NOT have more than 3 affects and 5 applies (affect is a spell that affects you like telekinesis and applies are attributes such as dex or age). After the original 21 points is paid for protection, you may continue to add more and more affects and applies to your oedit until you reach the limit without

having to repay for protection. For your convenience, a mob that loads your oedit will made available so that you will not have to wait for an immortal to load your item if it is lost. All items will be made singular on the game so only one will load at a time. There is a limit to no more than five protected items per player number. If you decide to have an oedit built from scratch by an immortal, it will probably be better than what you would get if you chose it yourself. Remember, if it is not here, it does not mean that it isn't available. It just means that it is negotiable.

How to purchase an oedit: 1. Submit a mudmail to Questor Admin from the character you want the oedit for. 2. State whether you want the object built from scratch or if you have an object that you want oedited. 3. Include in the mail all the things you want added to your object or if you have a certain amount of quest points and you would like to have it built by Questor Admin. 4. Have patience. An oedit takes approximately one week from submitted date to the date that you will acquire the object.

BASIC: 2 for 25 qps removal of flag 10 ac ap (not enchant) ⁷⁄₇ enchant nobreak up lattice hardening invisibility sense life detect invisibility detect align detect magic waterwalk infravision protect evil protect good sneak hide water breathe glowlight florescent divine illumination protect undead invis undead invis animals end cold protect lightning protect fire burning protect demons protect heat +2 to attributes rejuvination protect devils

casting weapon from group 1

Other affects pricing guide: Five points: Ten points: adrenaline retina displacecment confidence regeneration mana tap shroud protect radiation blur flight transparency psi shield fire shield true see move tap

Fifteen points: Twenty points: notrack haste sanctuary beserk telekenesis nopain blade barrier energy field damage control sonic imagry

Note: No remort skills are available as affect flags.

Flags that will not be removed: hunted singular class requirement flags

Damroll and Hitroll are available for 1 pt each up to 9 for a weapon and 5 for a non weapon available (i.e. if an item has 4 dam for a non weapon, you can purchase 1 for a max of 5).

Casting weapon group 1 (basic group or 2 qps): Shocking Grasp Poison Chill Touch Color Spray Create Food Blindness Energy Drain Burning Hands

Casting weapon group 2 (10 quest points) Lightning Bolt Fireball Ice Blast Spiritual Hammer Flame Strike Harm Word Stun

Casting weapon group 3 (15 quest points) Prismatic Spray Slow Chain Lightning

Save spells are available for a cost of 1 point per to a max of 10 per save

Maxmana, maxhit and maxmove may be added at 1 qp per 20 to a max of 60.

Ave dam increases will no longer be available.

Weapon speed and weapon weight may be changed but the possiblity all depends on the item and the cost will depend on how much.

Oedit items may only be loadable items on the mud or something that is started from scratch. You may not oedit special items such as quest prizes. You may not use randomly generated stats equipment. You may only use the stats that are under the items vnum.

Remember if you don't see it, it does not mean it is not available. It just means it is not listed. Please speak with the Questor Admin before making any decisions.

Last updated: Oct 13, 2003

I didn't mean this post to sound so accusatory. I just was curious why it got changed.

I don't blame you for sounding accusatory. The current help text sounds aggressively sarcastic at best. I don't want to lose QPs just because I ask for something and underprice it.

Greedy requests. Unrealistic expectations.

I understand some people may be greedy when they ask. However if that was a major reason for changing the rules…

The imm in charge couldn't just say "Sorry, you don't have enough QPs, look at the oedit rules again."?

Especially with the old guidelines, since they were very clear on how much almost everything was worth.

I understand it gets annoying if players get indignant about things and some ungrateful/entitled are I'll give you that.

But that isn't a reason to respond with sarcasm or oh so much worse, indifference to everyone, including the players who love the mud and appreciate the imms. The current help file actively discourages people from putting in the playtime to get oedits because it's not transparent.

The current policy just sounds like this:

"Those ungrateful entitled players! Why when I was a mortal… we had to walk though the barren wastes of Level 5 Hell with no equipment and blisters on my feet, TWICE, to get an oedit. I'll show them by making a process that will only benefit those I like."

Which is what the current policy sounds like, an insiders club, if we like you we give you the goods.

It's in the policy that imms must treat players with respect regardless of receiving it, just as it is for the players to treat imms with respect.

I think Tempus is an amazing game and thank people who help make it great for their work. However I think this particular policy is bad for the game.

Have you ever noticed that when you ask around Christmastime for something and are greedy, you get coal? And if you ask for very little in a creative fashion, you get an amazeballs item?

Maybe that's true, and amusing.

However it doesn't really address the Oedit topic :-)

The old policy was very simple. You knew exactly what was available and how many quest points it would cost you to get a certain affect. There wasn't a need to be greedy because you knew what you could get. They changed it to where you could get all the same stuff but took away the list of points. Then it was offer us an amount of qps you think your oedit is worth and it was a guessing game. That is when the "greedy" and "unreasonable" requests started. Also Christmas items have nothing to do with this.

Anyway I agree with Brywing that the old system worked. You could partner it with the new system and bring back the list with the exact amount of qps everything would cost. As of now you will still get greedy requests.

Just for the record here, the opinions Merriam is expressing are his own, and are not reflective of the opinions of TempusMUD or its staff.

It only makes sense to know what you are buying. Now it's more of a guessing game if what you offered is enough in someone else's eyes (and by someone else, I mean Wish). You better hope he's in a good mood when he reads your mail of your oedit request. I agree though there should be set prices for oedits.

Christmas items are completely different and irrelevant to this topic. Those are gifts and you don't pay anything for them. Oedits are purchased through hard work and time. Should your hard work and time be valued at someone else's opinion?

And I'm not trying to bash Wish either. All of my oedit requests have been fulfilled by him without any problems. But it's that time in between when you send that mail and receive your item that you're wondering if you were too greedy or think you should have asked for more/less. There wouldn't be that feeling if prices were set. You would know exactly what to ask for based off of what you have to offer.

I'd rather see more enhancements with smaller affects (like [reinforced]) than more oedits. Or maybe in addition to. You know, for those who can't get 25 qps. And yeah my opinions are mine. I'm not the showrunner here.

I have the highest respect for all of our imms, they do an amazing job and we couldn't have the amazing MUD we do without them. I just think that we should go back to a standard where it's clear what you can get for a specific number of QPs, I don't see the advantage with a non-transparent one.

I agree. Having a set price list just makes sense. Wish has always been cool with me and I don't think he would ever be like, "nope, you're screwed and thanks for the quest points". He would probably just say no. Aside from making it more straight forward for the players, a list would make wish's job easier, it would just be charge them whatever it costs and that's that. Also, brywing is right, it even says in the help file that it's "sketchy". I'm not sure the system of redeeming the most valuable and hardest to acquire thing in the game should be sketchy, or a risk at all.

Well my opinion won't be popular, but it's not like that has ever stopped me before.

I totally agree with Brywing that oedit prices and available changes should be standardized. When you play a game there is an expectation of fairness. I feel Tempus has all but lost this expectation. You instead expect certain people will always get special treatment, and some will always get the shaft. Standardizing things of this sort will go a long way toward leveling that playing field.

Of course, I also feel that oedits are far too cheap and the types of changes are far too powerful. The gap between the haves and the have-nots on Tempus is remarkably vast. Special equipment of this sort is one of the major culprits. I also feel Christmas presents fall into this group. The players of Tempus are often judged by the power of the haves, leaving the have-nots to struggle with halflings, get frustrated, and find a more balanced place to play.

I know, I know. You work hard for those oedits, and quests are few and far between. Special equipment makes the game more fun, etc. But if you really thought about it, wouldn't it be more fun if things were fair and you were judged on your skill instead of having ridiculous oedits that even you know are too powerful?

I would go as far as to say standardize the oedit system, wipe all the old oedits (give compensation to those with oedits so they may purchase new ones on the new standardized system), make sure the new system doesn't allow for objects that are far too power or far too easy to acquire, and start fresh with a more level playing field.

I would also like to a secondary set of points, like quest points, but based on pure game action. Every level you get a point. You beat the big bad boss monster, you get a point. You can turn in 1000 points for a rename. 5000 points for your sword to not break so often. This would allow everybody to be able to achieve fun things and augment their characters and play, not just those that are lucky enough to not be in the same quest as Red or Flexsis, or on their team :p